Hey, I don’t know if you’re aware but shaman literally one shot ever class at 60. If you wanna nerf something nerf that.
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Forbearance is 1 min long, which is a pretty short cooldown.
So are you talking about in a team fight like WSG or world PvP? Cause either way your point is invalid. If you’re in a team fight bubble is incredibly powerful since it basically gives you the opportunity to get back to your healers even at 1 health and no mana you’re likely to survive if your healers have any level of competency and in world PvP your argument is practically moot since you only need to use LoH or Bubble once during your fight anyways.
You’re seriously complaining about an ability that takes any movement impairing effects off of ANYONE having a 20 second cooldown??? Also at level 25 your blessing of might/blessing of wisdom buffs are so negligible you cannot seriously think you’re at a disadvantage because you don’t have an extra 50 attack power or 15 mana every 5 seconds. If you’re running out of mana during a 1v1 you’re not conserving your mana properly, the only exception being if you’re just getting mana drained the entire time.
Show me a heal that isn’t mana heavy and heals for a crap ton.
Also, as a Ret paladin you don’t have any of your healing gear or talents so ofcourse your heals aren’t gonna be as good as a class/spec signed to heal… this is a nonsensical complaint.
Again I’m having to make the point that just cause my character I post on forums with is a mage doesn’t mean I haven’t played other classes. Just proves to me how dense you are.
Mage Runes were almost immediately nerfed to not be so broken.
sure , they did it every 3 mins for an enormous bit of damage if you had the proper timing to chain lightning and earthshock at the same time and both crit but anyone with any pvp gear with the stam was safe cause of their hp pool and could be quickly healed and were still at least 2.5 seconds away from any more dmg but most shaman would act like they were spent and just shot their load and diddnt follow up with the kill shot.
but that was at 60 in a seperate game vs level 25 where locks are able to do nearly the same damage as the 60 shaman.
tell me again , what was your point?
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To be fair though, at this level bracket reshifting is next to impossible. At 55% base mana you get 1-2 shifts at best and now you are completely OOM.
As a feral you have to end up back in a form to do anything so realistically you get 1 to snare break, and 1 to get back into form, since you aren’t running much int gear you don’t have the mana for a 3rd.
As a caster especially Resto you don’t really have good mana efficiency at this bracket so you at most get 3 with your increased int, but then you also aren’t really able to cast anything.
The one exception is balance if you are exclusively using Starsurge and Wrath, because the mana cost from form shifting will not leave you mana to cast things like Sunfire or Moonfire.
If anything current Blink and Warbringer charge are better examples of consistent snare breaks which although have cooldowns, are still shorter cds than Freedom at 15s each.
But honestly though, people shouldn’t be complaining about Freedom right now, Paladins by themselves don’t have the mobility to stay on a target even with snare immunity (if it wasn’t purgable).
“Oh no he Freedom’d my Frost Nova!”
“Wait, I can just use Blink!”
That your class is broken, you just don’t care. You just wanna nerf other people. Nerfs for thee but not for me. Selfishness incarnate.
sure thing. if we are 1 shotting people at 60 and nobody else is (which i doubt because at level 25 people are almost capable of doing so now with a 25% nerf to damage in wsg) you may have a point.
however we are only level 25 and dont have the tools to do so currently (and again with the right setup my lock can crit a chaos bolt for 1412 dmg on a raid boss).
its the sum totality of the pally that is the problem. they have a counter for nearly everything in the game and were arguing in favor of keeping skill shield from being trinketable and shiftable in a grab for keeping the power they did have vs EVERY class.
i will say if any class is the sole class that can straight up global people they need a nerf .
but if it is nearly every class that can do it which is what will end up happening if the runes and the damage keep goin up and getting more broken and nothing is done then whatever , it just becomes a feature of the game in that state.
but whatever . call me selfish for not wanting clear outliers to ruin the game for everyone with counters to nearly every other class in the game.
There’s no if, a lvl 53 shaman nearly globaled my 60. I even have it on video. Survived with like 50 hp, and I was like zg/mc geared at the time. Until that’s nerfed nothing should get nerfed.
again we are currently playing sod.
the level cap is 25.
its a seperate game .
the bad guy cant hurt you here… yet.
can you not see this?
In what context? PvE where most of this discussion is irrelevant?
Or PvP where 1 minute is a literal lifetime.
Or, hear me out, you are unable to stay in melee range which is required for any of your mana regeneration.
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No it’s not. Warrior charge, heroic leap, monk roll and portal, lock portal, then DH and Evoker. Anything druid.
Indeed and that’s why they should have it just like warriors should be able to charge in combat or out of roots. Except that was exclusive too Prot and only for a month.
The Warbringer rune existed for 1 month for only Prot in Wrath until it was removed. So bringing that back and for ALL warriors is unprecedented.
Mages cried cause Prot warriors would charge out of nova and 1 shot them. So they removed Warbringer root break. Of course they then put a cap on block value causing the 1 shots as well. They never restored Warbringer though. It’s been missed. However this very short lived ability for only Prot War is back for ALL Wars.
No it actually made the game playable. It created counter play where you were immune to CC and could actually do things for once competitive with other classes. Keep in mind other Classes have CC immunity.
This is just not true. When Divine steed had CC immunity Prot had higher burst then Ret and there were Rank 1 Prot Pal’s in Arena. Personally though Divine steed immunity was required for Prot Pal to compete against druid/DH in RBGs. Prot was also very squishy when moving or in stuns, so needed the immunity as counterplay.
If you haven’t figure it out yet I main both Prot War and Prot Pal in PvP.
You are just off on a lot of your points and don’t either remember correctly or were ever aware.
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tell me which class exactly you cant stay in melee with just curious.
other than druid which directly counters you (yay 1 class in the whole game counters you with a specific spec and rune combination over the course of 45 seconds when you have no help on a tuesday).
You clearly aren’t familiar with Divine Steed.
The distance covered by Divine Steed over it’s short duration is ~3 Fel Rush. No other mobility tool in the game, even in retail can cover the same distance 
I don’t disagree they need a mobility tool, it just isn’t Divine Steed.
That’s not how counterplay works…
Which other classes have CC immunity? Especially in classic.
And let’s not forget you don’t just get CC immunity, you can bubble for 100% immunity whilst using Divine Steed. The attack speed slow means next to nothing in a game where paladins new have access to instant cast abilities that also proc their seals.
I think your problem is you are exclusively looking at it from a Prot perspective (and perhaps mine is mostly from looking at it from a Ret perspective), but honestly I can’t recall Prot supplying more burst than Ret for two expansions.
I recall a time in I believe SL where tanks in general were over performing in damage, but I can’t recall that being a long period.
I don’t know what’s worse in this thread the people crying Pally is OP or the Pally trying to tell everyone their class is garbo and stinks at everything lol.
You guys need a reality check.
Hear me out, you Purge Freedom, almost any class can snare them. They can’t catch any class because they have base movespeed or at best 8% from using two talents.
Even without purging freedom, they can’t snare you, so if they aren’t already in melee range or 10yrd they can’t touch you. If they are, why did you let them waddle so close?
Paladin counterplay before mount is literally just walking in the opposite direction from them 
Next phase we even get Minor Speed to boots so unless they get new runes, outside of Repentence they still shouldn’t be able to touch any class.
Are you not familiar with the term “wheel chair class”? The whole design of classic paladin is “move at base move speed, prevent opponent from going above base move speed”.
If you are able to have distance, they currently have no tools in which to deal with that. If you can snare them, even better.
If you are letting paladins get within 10yrds of you and having an issue peeling them, that is on you.
That’s like putting your head underwater and then complaining you can’t breathe, you opted to be in that situation in the first place.
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yea about that…this isent classic, all those useless specs can actually compete now but that doesnt suddenly make them overpowered, it makes the game well designed
paladin has to be survivable, they have no mobility too speak of and they need burst because once the HoJ runs out the paladin will have no way to stay on any other class…they are a melee class with no stealth or gap closer
this is honestly what ret should of always been, not just a slow walking trash can buff bot but a recking ball that people shouldnt take lightly like they did in classic
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I am familiar enough with the Prot version of Divine steed to have used it to be the #3 Ranked Prot Pal in NA in RBGs in BFA. I’m well familiar with how it was used, how it was required, why it got eventually removed in SL. I know it’s history in detail and wrote the guide on Prot Pal PvP.
Nothing I said is inaccurate.
I don’t know why you hate Divine steed since there are better mobility abilities. Not gonna waste my time on whatever bias agenda you have. Since clearly you are wrong.
That is how counterplay works. I was competing while using it.
We don’t know what CC immunities will be added. This isn’t Classic. This is SOD. Abilities from various expansions is being added. Which is why I said it would be cool to have Prot version of Divine steed.
That’s not a problem. I told you I main Prot in PvP you dingus. With that said I’m mostly waiting for Glad Stance Warrior to be added from WoD. Nothing like doing huge damage with a Shield.
Never played Horde. Try again, genius.
Its level 25 we have more skills then most classes. Why does everyone whine. Nerf disc nerf hunters serpents nerf warlock drainlife nerf shammy wolf form cuz no can catch them nerf druid catform spell spam wah wah wah
Druids - paladins - locks and hunters are some of the most busted in PvP right now and its only gonna get worse
Tank shaman is almost impossible to solo I better have loh and divine shield ready and used at just the right moment to even have a shot at defeating a skilled geared tank shaman
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