A lot of people were disappointed with the challenge of raid bosses. Private servers buffed raid bosses to serve the community desire for more challenge. There is an argument to be made for changes. People on this forum are responding to some of the less fun things about Classic WoW.
I mean then go join a Pserver. This was never promised to be classic with changes. It was classic, and classic has had 15 years of theorycrafting to make it simplistic.
Retail raiding is a challenge. Classic was never going to be
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This is the problem when you exist in an echo chamber like the WoW forums. You start to believe everyone thinks this way. The vast, vast, vast, VAST majority of Classic players aren’t craving for some ultra challenging raid encounters. They play the game to have fun. Just like the vast majority did back in the early days of WoW. Sadly, Blizz listened to the very vocal minority on the forums and crafted the game for them over the years. Hopefully they avoid making that mistake again. So far they have.
In the end, Classic WoW was a poor facsimile of original Vanilla. I still had fun, but think it could have been improved. Some changes would have made the experience much better, but I know that the problem is everyone has different ideas of what should change.
Clearly that will be the tricky part of TBC classic. In the end, Blizzard will likely not change anything and dump us with the final patch. I hope at the very least, they do some form of patch progression to preserve some element of challenge before sunwell.
Sure some may have made your gameplay better at the cost of others. But for the sake of not risking that they should leave it alone and let people take a trip down memory lane
It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other. I think the biggest problem is there is no difficulty curve. All bosses are laughably easy because dps is so high Classic Wow. Mechanics barely matter. Even if it’s still easy, it would be nice if the raids had progressive difficulty or bosses within the instance became increasingly difficult. My experience is they all felt super easy.
Whatever they are, they are. This is Classic. If you want more challenging content, then there’s Retail Mythic. But that was never the intent for Classic.
I wanted as close to the original Vanilla experience as possible. The patch we got was neutered version of the original content. That’s the best blizzard could do, but in an ideal world, the bosses would have been in the state they were originally first killed and character talents wouldn’t have been what they are until Naxx was released.
That’s fine, but realize there’s plenty of people who wanted exactly what we got: 1.12 balance. Just because you didn’t doesn’t mean others don’t. And just because you wanted the earlier version doesn’t mean that would have been the right choice. But regardless you still got authentic Vanilla.
People like to make the argument that it’s not authentic because it’s not patch progression, or it’s 1.12 talents with doing the earlier raids. Those people are looking at it wrong. Here’s what you do: pretend it’s late 2006 and Blizzard creates a new server. THAT is what we’re playing. The only difference is they’re staggering content release. Other than that this is just a new server being created in late Vanilla. In that context the devs’ choices make perfect sense.
We go the horrible version of AV. People have really fond memories of original AV. Vanilla was particularly unique in that is saw incredible changes from patch to patch. Changes in future expansions weren’t nearly as dramatic. Patch to patch vanilla was like a new game a lot of time.
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It is possible to do a lot of things while dramatically under performing or even being outright bad, but it doesn’t make the player any less bad.
And unless we’re talking Mythics, you’re not clearing anything either.
Ok, you got me there. 1.12 AV was a disaster of a choice. The earlier version was radically different and would have offered something few players experienced.
That said, I wouldn’t have had a problem with earlier versions of raids either. But that’s not what this thread is about. This thread is about actually changing what existed back then to a state that never existed. That I am 100% against.
But by going with a later patch, it affected the difficulty of earlier content. If you want to somewhat preserve the feeling of the original experience, perhaps some changes could be considered.
If Blizzard would do patch progression with TBC, then preserve it as it originally was. But if we get the nerfed version, there is no reason to keep abusable systems.
Patch progression is fine. If they want to do it, do it. I doubt they will, since removing some elements of patches but keeping others would be a mess. But I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But it’s still going to end up at 2.4.3. So is it worth it? That’s up to Blizz.
But, again, that’s not what this thread is about. And your post suddenly shifts to ‘there’s no reason to keep abusable systems’. That’s how it existed in TBC, and that’s how it will exist in a Classic TBC. If you don’t want to use it, don’t use it. This philosophy of, “I don’t want to use it, so no one should be able to!” is the exact philosophy that’s sucked the life out of the game over the years. There’s no choice or freedom in anything because players have become slaves to the meta, and you look to big brother Blizzard to eliminate these systems.
And they’re trying to do it again. I don’t understand it.
Edit- Look, you’re simultaneously saying raids are too easy. That you want challenging content. And then also you want bosses buffed, world buffs removed, drums nerfed.
Here’s a better idea: don’t use world buffs. Don’t get leatherworking in TBC. Wear crappy gear. Don’t use talents. There’s a million ways to handicap and make content harder…if that’s what you really want. Take it upon yourself to do it. Don’t ask Blizzard to step in and handicap everyone because you refuse to do so yourself.
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I’d say a good change would be so drums affects the entire raid. This way there not everyone will be forced into leatherworking, rather only a handful who likely had LW anyways because they are hunters/druids/rogues/shamans.
So, the chicken engineering trinket in Classic gives basically the same buff as drums, 5% haste to your group. The AI on it was broken for a long time (it didn’t follow you, so you couldn’t swap trinkets pre-combat), but they fixed it like last summer. Yet we haven’t seen everyone switch to engineering for constant chicken buff uptime on every boss in Naxx.
I think it will be the same with leatherworking in TBC, or at least I hope so. Some super sweaty guilds (<5%) will require everyone to be LW, just like there are guilds now that require everyone to be an engineer. But they will be a small minority. I think for most guilds, there won’t be any pressure to go LW. The buff is a nice little perk, but it’s really not that big of a deal.
I think the difference that will matter is that the chicken is only a chance to squawk while drums are guaranteed. I also think battle squawk is melee only whereas drums haste everyone.
Do you not find the irony of playing female Human and hating all the people who play Belf?
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Well I mean that’s just an outright lie. You can literally look and see on warcraft logs the dozens of guilds raiding in Naxx without world buffs.
I mean both Reddit and Whitemane Discord have multiple guilds looking for both warlocks and druids.
Literally guilds spamming in Whitemane trade about “no world buff raiding, and casual Naxx progression”.
You’re on one of the most populated servers in classic, why would you lie about something so easy to prove wrong?
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Agree, either make them usable by anyone or add the exhausted debuff. If they do the exhausted debuff they should do the same for lust/heroism to prevent group swapping on encounters. Bring the challenge level up a little without changing mechanics or stats of bosses.