The Tauren don’t emphatically disagree with me… and if they do, they are weak, like Baine Bloodhoof. When the Alliance killed King Rastakhan, Baine Bloodhoof spoke of negotiating?? That is WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! How do you think Talanji felt??
1 Like
I have to question how half of Shadowlands will even work now, so much of it’s story was tied to BFA and the tree burning…
1 Like
Could also be spaghetti code.
IE they wrote this stuff up, had plans to try this. Realized the amount of revisionism they’d need to do would be outrageously expensive and abandoned it.
But then they haven’t gone back (yet) to fix all the stuff they changed.
1 Like
Baine isn’t weak, he’s sane. Not baying for the blood of everyone that dares to wear blue or happens to like lions a little is a sign of sanity, not frailty. Zandalar put a target on their back when they joined the Horde in an official capacity, and Alliance efforts went pretty much singularly to eliminating military leadership and effectiveness. Unlike Teldrassil, where the point was as much death and destruction as possible. Rastakhan as a perfectly valid target the moment the Horde was allowed to set up shop in his base. If he were merely a trading partner, like the Vulpera, there would be a better argument and the Alliance would be far more damned for the assault (whose attempted purge, in the age of Anduin, still doesn’t make sense. Anduin isn’t someone who would go after neutral parties for trading purposes).
Even looking at it from a strictly win/loss vantage, negotiations are useful to stall for time. The Alliance crushed the Zandalar military and the Horde either had no ability to or no will to stop them since, you know, they managed to slay the King. What was Baine supposed to do, take what forces remain and drive them into the waiting swords and cannons of the superior army? He needed to either stall long enough for evacuations to complete or perhaps for reinforcements to arrive. Sylvanas was clearly not invested enough in Zandalar to show up herself, and Nathanos forgot to turn on his God Mode that day, so obviously Horde leadership cared little for what happened to their newest proxy.
Talanji is surely mad, but her anger is likely directed as much toward Horde leadership as Alliance leadership.
4 Likes
Also Lingxiu, Sylvanas did show up and Nathanos was there too. Whether they cared is a different question. I think Baine Bloodhoof certainly didn’t, as he did nothing to avenge Rastakhan
Baine is weak, whether you like Sylvanas or not (which for the record, i do not) Baine should not have been talking about peace or negotiations after Talanji’s father had been killed by alliance hands. Its not right to make peace with the faction who killed your fellow Hordies, that’s treason. Even if you hate Sylvanas (which i kind of do) the plan to kill the Proudmore’s using Derek as a weapon was good!! It was a very smart plan and would have worked. Rastakhan would have been avenged. I don’t really care about Teldrassil!! The alliance keep complaining about that, but they stole the Amani trolls land during the Troll wars. The Trolls are the first people on Azeroth, they are natives, thus the alliance are wrong!!
Avenged for who though? Half his own empire hated him enough to commit 46 assassination attempts, including his own wife (I don’t think it’s ever clarified if she did this before or after him marrying her either). Apparently half the empire saw him as a weak king and even went as far as trying to replace him with a long dead king. He’s likable in demeanor and personality sure, but let’s not pretend like he was a competent ruler… His daughter Talanji was the only reason The Horde lent aid and helped against his wishes, seeing as the King’s pride kept him from asking himself and caused him to forbid outside interference. Nice guy really, but he did have his faults…
3 Likes
Massive citations needed here. Baine was doing his duty as a Horde official and statesperson by trying to work with foreign leaders to figure out the next step after what happened.
The Derek Proudmoore plan was an abomination. That the plan got as far as it did is a stain on the Horde and Baine did good in foiling it. If you think THAT’S a good idea, then EVERY Horde soldier should be implanted with the same outcome on death or trigger. Make literally every Hordite a bomb. Sickening.
He offered the soldiers he encountered a chance to leave, and those that decided to die got their wish. Baine fights hard for causes he sees as honorable and just, but he’s not stupid either. He can see when he needs to lay low and when he needs to undermine truly putrid efforts.
The Troll wars were brought about because the Trolls were becoming decadent and malicious as a society, evidenced by the rise of cannibalism and blood ritual magic practiced within their borders. Theirs is a lesson of treat people nice if you want to keep what you have.
3 Likes
sounds like a lot of unhappy horde players cried loud enough about not watning ti be the bad guys when they are in fact the bad guys no matter how much blizz tries to retconn it surfang himself said so. if thats not confirmation enough then i dont know what is
Rastakhan was a great king, you’re an alliance player, talking about the competence of Rastakhan and calling him a “weak King”. WHAT ABOUT ANDUIN??!! He’s a weak King!! Also a weak King does not mean he deserves to be taken advantage of by Alliance oppressors!! If you really think someones weakness is a excuse for oppression, please tell that to the people of Teldrassil
1 Like
To be fair he was taken advantage of by Bwonsamdi, which I am totally fine with, I like Bwonsamdi swell guy… a little confusing at times though; once told me he needed me alive before throwing me over a wall and killing me (again, happy undeath day to me, or however unbirthday equivalents for dead people work)
.
Anduin isn’t weak, he lead the charge against the Horde and destroyed a siege machine, however you may have forgotten he vowed in MoP to treat The Horde fairly and with honor, knowing that despite their outer appearance The Horde valued/s honor as well.
1 Like
Lingxiu, the troll wars were an atrocity, the alliance stole the Trolls land, first by building a city on it. The Amani trolls are the natives, they were there first. Therefore they are right (do not deserve to be kicked out). They did treat the High elves and Humans as nicely as they deserved, after having a city built selfishly on troll land. I don’t really care if Derek proudmore was used as an Abomination. He’s alliance and the alliance are wrong (they stole the Trolls land). If Hordies were used as abominations, I would have a problem (that is the problem I do have with Sylvanas). Using alliance as abominations is fair game.
Are you cracked? The Troll Empires were in decline at that state and going completely insane. Establishing footholds and strongholds were a matter of survival, not aggression. Zandalar kept to itself which kept it off of a lot of radars, but again, once they got involved in AvH, they faced the Alliance war machine. Rastakhan made several critical errors, and eventually it all caught up to him, resulting in him being abandoned by his loa, his empire, and eventually by life.
By your logic, the trolls should be at war with the Horde because Orcs are literally an invading alien army.
7 Likes
No the Trolls should not and are not at war with the Orcish Horde!! The Amani trolls were ALLIED with the Orcish Horde, Yes because they were an INVADING alien army. They were invading the Human Kingdoms of Lordaeron and the high elves. Humans and elves the same people who stole the Amani trolls land. The Orcish Horde under Orgrim Doomhammer promised Zul’jin his land back after that conquered Lordaeron and Quel’thalas. They were JUSTIFIED!! That is why I play on the Horde. That is why I play an Orc Shaman (character named Amanir, after the Amani).
Question? why do you stand up for the alliance in this debate if you play Horde. See I play only one side and agree with only one side, the Orcish Horde and New Horde.
So its ok to turn your enemies into abominations, but doing the same to an ally is wrong. Rather two faced there.
Creating abominations is creating abominations. Whether its enemy or ally, its a monster that has been created.
2 Likes
This is Amanir on his third toon.
So the trolls would have submitted to the Orcish Horde? They weren’t going to be equals, the Horde was either going to subsume the Empires or go to war with them next. Doomhammer wasn’t in the mindset of accepting equals, only allies of circumstance. The Trolls were going to be on the menu the literal second the Alliance was broken. Draenor proved that Orcs, at their least restrained, are butchers and conquerors with no thought toward preservation or conservation. Azeroth would have been stripped totally dry and left as another Outland had the Alliance not been able to turn back the old Horde.
1 Like
This is Amanir on his first toon
Tyrande is with the Alliance.
From the Horde perspective, the Alliance is evil and all are villains…