Naxx requirements

[Huntthorgast-aegwynn]

@Killawar-faerlina

An unlucky person who doesn’t let the screen absorb them is going to have maybe a valor piece and some heroism pieces. The rest could be garbage. Doesn’t mean they’re bad, and that certainly doesn’t mean they shouldn’t get to run Naxx 10

That is a great strawman argument you have here.
I even explicitly talket about having a treshhold around 185-195 ilvl average that i would consider to be logical, and fair.
And having this average, is indeed supremely easy to get, and there is zero logical reasoning against it.
If you insist, you can still hold onto your logic, that anybody somehow has the right to be first priority for a pug, even tho he barely played the character at level 80.
Im fine with that, to everyone their own opinion, and if you want to open a pug where such people are favored, you go deathknight!

But creating a strawman to force your botched logik onto others, thats a no go.

And how many heroics/dailies does it take to get every rep piece you would want? Because it’s also a timesink.

It takes less heroics then you would need to get

@Killawar-faerlina

some heroism pieces

you used in your example. I dont know why you like do disprove yourself, but hey, you go Deathknight!

@Killawar-faerlina

How do you know that now? It’s almost like gear is just as fallible so maybe you shouldn’t only use that and set it to some nonsense standard.

Player a)
-Unknown skill
-Unknown character
-Unknown performance
-bad gear

Player b)
-Unknown skill
-Unknown character
-Unknown performance
-good gear

As the first 3 aspects are exactly the same on both players, you literally have no other options to judge those 2 players besides gear. Its as easy as that.

@Killawar-faerlina

Ah so you started in epics/ilvl 197? No? Then why’re you going to gatekeep the dude who is more than likely in the same gear that you were?

You DO recognize that blue items in wotlk can be itemlevel 200, do you ?
If not, you should definitly start doing research, otherwise the discussion can not lead to anywhere.
Also, he never wrote about that he wants to gatekeep people that where in the same gear he was. He wants to gatekeep people that are below the standart he set for himself, which is a completely different story.

@Killawar-faerlina

Except it’s not because you’re assuming that you’re somehow infallible yourself and not going to screw things up despite being Mr. Geared. You’re using gear as a pure metric. It’s a bad one. That is the point.

Your “metric” is way below his metric.
your “metric” is:
Maybe the random player is a hidden god at playing wotlk.
Maybe he can performe better than mathematically possible.
Maybe the good geared player is a total slacker and is horrible at gaming.

You see, you dont have to agree with his metric being the best, but at least he has a metric.
You dont have anything.

@Killawar-faerlina

“Minimal” is not doing all heroics every day plus dailies plus PvP just so you can turn your nose up at the one green Argent questline trinket.

Another strawman argument.
Im to lazy to scroll up, but im pretty sure never had it been claimed you have to do all heroics every day, in fact the opposite rather had been.
And Thirtysix literally disputed with me about wether or not PVP would still be in a timeframe that is considered low effort.

[Killawar-faerlina]

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

That is a great strawman argument you have here.

It’s not a strawman at all. Not everyone wants to spend 4-6 hrs grinding heroics.

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

And having this average, is indeed supremely easy to get, and there is zero logical reasoning against it.
If you insist, you can still hold onto your logic, that anybody somehow has the right to be first priority for a pug, even tho he barely played the character at level 80.

Yeah, that’s not my logic at all. Maybe try not to superimpose someone else’s form of reasoning as to set up their argument to be weaker than it actually is. That’s strawmanning, by the way.
My argument is:
Someone who has greens on shouldn’t automatically be declined. You were in greens once. Think that meant you couldn’t press your buttons?

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

you used in your example. I dont know why you like do disprove yourself, but hey, you go Deathknight!

Uh oh, also taking things out of context!

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

Player a)
-Unknown skill
-Unknown character
-Unknown performance
-bad gear

Player b)
-Unknown skill
-Unknown character
-Unknown performance
-good gear

Ah, so you don’t check achieves/current rating? Sounds legit. Who’s strawmanning again?

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

You DO recognize that blue items in wotlk can be itemlevel 200, do you ?

You DO realize that the majority of normal dungeons, not-spam-runned, do not drop that level of gear, yes?
Since you don’t you should definitely stop trying to gatekeep people who don’t have 5-8hrs of time a day to invest.

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

Also, he never wrote about that he wants to gatekeep people that where in the same gear he was. He wants to gatekeep people that are below the standart he set for himself, which is a completely different story.

Also, those two sentences contradict each other. “I don’t want to gatekeep people in some questionable pieces! I just won’t invite them!”
Yeah, sure.

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

Your “metric” is way below his metric.
your “metric” is:
Maybe the random player is a hidden god at playing wotlk.
Maybe he can performe better than mathematically possible.
Maybe the good geared player is a total slacker and is horrible at gaming.

My metric is:
Gear isn’t everything.
Check achieves.
See if they can write complete sentences.

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

You see, you dont have to agree with his metric being the best, but at least he has a metric.
You dont have anything.

Oh, look at that, more assumptions. See how dumb that looks now for you to have said?

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

Another strawman argument.

Not a strawman at all. Expecting people to be x,y,z-capped in starting gear is nonsense.

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

Im to lazy to scroll up, but im pretty sure never had it been claimed you have to do all heroics every day, in fact the opposite rather had been.

It doesn’t have to be claimed; it takes a ton of badges to get pieces off the vendor.

[Genericwarr-westfall-1044182]

@Riger-arugal

Because the ‘student’ may be a better player

That is some huge chunk of copeium

[Thirtysix-pagle]

@Killawar-faerlina

@Thirtysix-pagle

Nobody said you need prebis for Naxx.

@Uncrissdenom-pagle

thats great then why are you complaining about reaching 9% hit 23 expertise 540 def and tryign to close in on 30k armor?

@Thirtysix-pagle

you will have enough emblems for your chest, gloves, trinket, off hand

And how many other slots is that not that could be, dare I say, green?

Literally nothing you quoted here makes sense or has anything to do with being pre raid BiS for nax. To answer your question, and ignoring the out of context and strange quotes about tank gear…

If you’ve quested to 80 through storm peaks, and didn’t do ice crown at all. You’ve done your 2 world tours or the equal amount of herois to it “24”, there is 100% no way you’re going to have more than 1 maybe 2 green items. And more than likely it will be a trinket.

@Killawar-faerlina

I hope you’re not talking about the 200 purples that people are charging thousands for that are basically equal to Naxx 10 - the thing you’re apparently trying to gatekeep. So, “pay money or don’t come”, hm?

I’m talking about crafted gear that you can buy to offset what you said is horrible luck. Most classes dont need the epic crafted stuff. But there are blue cloaks, rings, boots, and gloves that are all item level 200 and crafted. They sell for around 100 to 150g. A handful of quests at 80.

@Killawar-faerlina

And every badge item is 4 slots. Rep could be another couple. Crafted gear costs a lot of money. The blues that can be crafted efficiently are not 200.

The blues that are crafted are in fact 200.

@Killawar-faerlina

You do realize that heroics are so laughably easy that you could run them with what is essentially a man down? So no, not really.

When in the world did we start talking about heroics? Again what in the hell are you talking about here?

@Killawar-faerlina

No, you’re not! Because you’re a guild! And guilds can be picky because they’ve spent all that time tailoring themselves! You, on the other hand, want to reap the rewards of that specific tailoring without the effort. You’re no better than the other pugs in terms of this.

I can be picky if I’m making a pug too. I do it all the time. Though my barrior to entry is not high, I just want to see that you’ve put effort into your character and have at least some gear to mitigate possible lack of skill. I really really don’t understand what you’re not getting about this.

@Killawar-faerlina

Then why do you think having the same gatekeeping standards is all right for you if you’re not going through the effort of running a guild group?

There is that word gatekeeping again. Once again, you keep using that word, I don’t think you know what it means.

@Killawar-faerlina

Maybe I’m talking about the dude who has guild-like standards for people while he’s pugging.

What is wrong with having standards while pugging? Tell me EXACTLY what is wrong with wanting players who have put effort into their characters. I’m not saying BiS, I’m saying SOME EFFORT before being bold enough to ask for an invite to a pug.

@Killawar-faerlina

Not out of context at all. You have guild-level-standards while trying to form a pug. Have one’s cake and eat it to.

That’s not even what we were talking about when you quoted what I said! Holy crap my guy are you something special lol.

@Killawar-faerlina

That’s great! Some people don’t have all that time to invest, but you know what? There are some of those who are in 187, maybe even 175 ilvl average, that know how to play their class better than you! And they’re not signing up for roles that are that gear-dependent (dps)! But you’re going to gatekeep those people because you think gear is a guarantee of skill (or a “buffer”) when it’s not.

And guess what… if you’re at 187… then YOU’RE NOT IN GREENS! If you’re at 175… YOU’RE NOT IN GREENS!

And again, I don’t know if they are better than me… they very well may be, but that’s hardly the point. The point is I don’t know them, I want them to have a gear buffer for a POTENTIAL LACK OF SKILL. Key word POTENTIAL. Also everybody having at least some gear is going to make the run smoother and faster for all.

If I go into a run with 150 item level as DPS. I’m not going to out dps myself if I went into that same run with 187 am I?

@Killawar-faerlina

Yep, a buffer for you. The

This also makes no sense. Better gear provides a buffer for anybody. I think you’re just word vometing at this point. You didn’t even finish your thought on this one…

@Killawar-faerlina

@Thirtysix-pagle

If somebody was short a handful of items, but they clearly have put in effort then I would not turn them away.

Says gear is an indicator of effort.
Says someone who is missing pieces would be invited if they showed clear effort, but by your logic someone who is missing pieces and has green quest ones hasn’t “shown clear effort”.
Which is it?

@Thirtysix-pagle

How am I an elitist? You keep using that word, I’m not sure you know what it means

I’m not sure you know what it means. You’re the one who’s being inconsistent.

Your brain is so confused you’re not even using the “quote” tool right…

Again, I’m not sure what you’re not understanding about this whole thing. I’m starting to think I was right when I said you were either slow or trolling. And at this point… I’m thinking you’re not trolling.

If for whatever reason I’m pugging for the week and not running with my guild. And somebody asks to join and they have mostly level 80 gear, maybe not even the best 80 gear for them… but it’s level 80. They have 3 or 4 badge items, the 80 gear they do have is gemmed properly and enchanted, and then 1 or 2 greens and they are a DPS. I have no problem bringing them. They are clearly working on their gear, and that’s plenty of gear to be a net positive for the raid group.

However, if somebody asks to join my pug in level 76 green gear, a random blue from a quest that has no gems in the gem slots, and their gear is not enchanted, no… that’s not what I’m looking to run with. It would be a net negative for the raid group. It’s too easy to pug another player who has had time to put a some work into their gear.

I really don’t get why this concept is so hard for you to understand.

[Huntthorgast-aegwynn]

@Killawar-faerlina

Someone who has greens on shouldn’t automatically be declined. You were in greens once. Think that meant you couldn’t press your buttons?

Actually, i´ve not been in greens since my first character in classic, besides stuff like the hinterlands hit trinket for obvious reasons.
And if i show up as a protpally for 25 naxx in green gear, then i should automatically be declined. Because no matter how good i am at pressing my buttons (and im provable good at that) i would still get rekked by patchwork, because i would be outside the healable range of stats i require to do my job in the raid.
Wow is not a highly skill based game in pve, especially not in Wotlk.
It is a gear based game.
U get oneshottet by a hateful, or blown to death by regular attacks from patchwork in a timeframe that is to short to be healable ? Then you literally can not do what you are supposed to do, and thus should not be invited to do this job.

@Killawar-faerlina

Ah, so you don’t check achieves/current rating? Sounds legit. Who’s strawmanning again?

Especially for you, another round:

Player a)
-Unknown skill
-Unknown character
-Unknown performance
-Achievements and current rating exactly the same as player b)
-bad gear

Player b)
-Unknown skill
-Unknown character
-Unknown performance
-Achievements and current rating exactly the same as Player a)
-good gear

Im sure you find more to add to the list, come on, keep going.

@Killawar-faerlina

You DO realize that the majority of normal dungeons, not-spam-runned, do not drop that level of gear, yes?
Since you don’t you should definitely stop trying to gatekeep people who don’t have 5-8hrs of time a day to invest.

5-8 hours a day? Uhm… What ? Can you maybe explain to me and the world, why you would need 5-8 hours a day for getting some badge gear?

@Killawar-faerlina

Also, those two sentences contradict each other. “I don’t want to gatekeep people in some questionable pieces! I just won’t invite them!”
Yeah, sure.

Thats not what i wrote. Like literally not even close.

@Killawar-faerlina

Check achieves.

@Killawar-faerlina

See if they can write complete sentences.

You failed your “metric”. You do not deserve to participate in any group activity from now on.

@Killawar-faerlina

Not a strawman at all. Expecting people to be x,y,z-capped in starting gear is nonsense

Nope. Expecting tanks to be crit imune is not nonsense.
I would actually agree that its possible to play without crit immunity in Naxx10, even tho i would not want someone to do, neither would i want to do that myself, because that would badly affect my healers, and the random factor of wiping because of crits would be too high.
But in naxx 25, on bosses that actually deal tank dmg like patchwork, i would never accept being not crit immune.

@Thirtysix-pagle

I’m talking about crafted gear that you can buy to offset what you said is horrible luck. Most classes dont need the epic crafted stuff. But there are blue cloaks, rings, boots, and gloves that are all item level 200 and crafted. They sell for around 100 to 150g. A handful of quests at 80.

On Venoxis-Eu those stuff sells mostly around 10-12 gold, close to shard price from dissenchanting. Also theres ilvl200 boes from heroics, that are mostly close to that pricing, since they are so vastly available.

@Thirtysix-pagle

If for whatever reason I’m pugging for the week and not running with my guild. And somebody asks to join and they have mostly level 80 gear, maybe not even the best 80 gear for them… but it’s level 80. They have 3 or 4 badge items, the 80 gear they do have is gemmed properly and enchanted, and then 1 or 2 greens and they are a DPS. I have no problem bringing them. They are clearly working on their gear, and that’s plenty of gear to be a net positive for the raid group.

However, if somebody asks to join my pug in level 76 green gear, a random blue from a quest that has no gems in the gem slots, and their gear is not enchanted, no… that’s not what I’m looking to run with. It would be a net negative for the raid group. It’s too easy to pug another player who has had time to put a some work into their gear.

I really don’t get why this concept is so hard for you to understand.

I would do the same.
Some effort is something that is legit to expect.
And tbh so far in this ID, atleast on my Server, ive never seen a PUG that had higher itemlevel requirements then 190 average.
I expected some people to have ridiculous requirements, but i´ve not seen them yet.
Maybe next week.

[Thirtysix-pagle]

@Killawar-faerlina

It’s not a strawman at all. Not everyone wants to spend 4-6 hrs grinding heroics.

But it’s okay that they feel obligated to raid and be given free gear by those who have put in the time to grind heroics? Also… it’s about 7 hours TOTAL to run 24 heroics. They are on average 15 minutes each. And about an hour for travel.

@Killawar-faerlina

Someone who has greens on shouldn’t automatically be declined. You were in greens once. Think that meant you couldn’t press your buttons?

Nobody said that somebody in greens should be automatically declined. What we are saying is somebody in ALL GREENS or MOSTLY GREENS will be declined. Because even if they pressed their buttons perfectly. They are not going to be close to hit cap, and they won’t do good dps or be a net positive for the raid… It’s a simple as that.

@Killawar-faerlina

Ah, so you don’t check achieves/current rating? Sounds legit. Who’s strawmanning again?

Again, what do achieves have to do with anything? I’ve boosted players to 2200 arena before in 2’s and 3’s, does that mean they are good at arena? No, it means they paid for me and my healer to carry them.

My guild also sold Sunwell clears/gear runs in TBC. Does that mean the person who sat there and did nothing as we cleared the content is good because they have the achievement? Nope…

So the point still stands, that there is no way to know how good somebody is by achievements… But you can place a metric on the gear. And that metric needed isnt even very high. A few hours of grinding before being expected to raid is not too much to ask I don’t think…

@Killawar-faerlina

You DO realize that the majority of normal dungeons, not-spam-runned, do not drop that level of gear, yes?
Since you don’t you should definitely stop trying to gatekeep people who don’t have 5-8hrs of time a day to invest.

You DO realize that heroics are 15 min runs now right? And that they take literally 0 skill to finish… And its not 5-8 hours a DAY its 5-8 hours TOTAL.

@Killawar-faerlina

Also, those two sentences contradict each other. “I don’t want to gatekeep people in some questionable pieces! I just won’t invite them!”

I’ve never once said that. Try not putting words in my mouth son.

@Killawar-faerlina

My metric is:
Gear isn’t everything.
Check achieves.
See if they can write complete sentences.

Well that last part would leave you out.

@Killawar-faerlina

Yep, a buffer for you. The

@Killawar-faerlina

It doesn’t have to be claimed; it takes a ton of badges to get pieces off the vendor.

It takes exactly 24 heroics + leveling up through storm peaks. So you quest and do all the zones as you level finishing each zone up through SP - and then you do 24 heroics At that point you have enough badges to get 100% of your badge gear minus your neck. For your neck you will need 3 more heroics totaling 27.

The reason I use 24 is because that’s 2 world tours. But you don’t have to do 24 all at once, you can do 2 a day for 12 days. Or 3 a day for 8 days… or 4 a day for 6 days.

If you do 4 a day “1 hour of dungeons”, for 6 days. In less than a week you are 100% guaranteed to have at least 187 item level. Again, very minimal effort that is being asked for here.

[Riger-arugal]

@Genericwarr-westfall-1044182

some huge chunk of copeium

Gloating on alts is sooo cute.

[Genericwarr-westfall-1044182]

Last time i checked people don’t have to level to 80 the first character they made in wow.

[Riger-arugal]

Sure, but there’s a lot of trash talking coming from people, like yourself, who don’t post on an avatar that can be held accountable.

Easy to throw pot shots at others and make big claims about yourself under cover of anonymity where no-one can cross check any of your claims.

[Auril-stormrage]

The wg helm is trash. It has zero avoidance.

[Genericwarr-westfall-1044182]

Other people are making claims on their lv 80 character but you ignore them anyway.
Your problem isn’t with me posting on a level 12. You would have no qualm if I was supporting your cope on a level 1.

Why should i bother?

[Riger-arugal]

@Genericwarr-westfall-1044182

Other people are making claims on their lv 80 character but you ignore them anyway.

What your alts? The ones claiming that their main is a different character which they refuse to post on? Lol

I don’t believe Thirtysix is an alt btw. I think that’s a main. Which is pretty laughable given the claims.

As I said before - pretending to be elitist doesn’t make you any good. Show me a parse or something rather than hot air and insults.

[Knaztor-yojamba]

I got the cleaver in my first HoL heroic and then a betrayer in my first naxx

[Genericwarr-westfall-1044182]

What is your coming back from the “the people in blue and green MAY have a chance to be better”?
One doesn’t need to be elitist to laugh at your huge cope.

[Huntthorgast-aegwynn]

@Auril-stormrage

The wg helm is trash. It has zero avoidance.

Because avoidance on a tankpally is a stat you can stack in preraid gear.
People sometimes…

[Thirtysix-pagle]

@Riger-arugal

I don’t believe Thirtysix is an alt btw. I think that’s a main. Which is pretty laughable given the claims.

I never said this was an alt in wrath, why do you and your ilk always try and invent things that were never said to try and win an argument? I swear it has to be some kind of mental disorder ya’ll have.

This is my main, however, as I said before, it was not my main in TBC. This was made so I could do self boosts on my main account as well as gold farm strat.

[Huntthorgast-aegwynn]

@Riger-arugal

As I said before - pretending to be elitist doesn’t make you any good. Show me a parse or something rather than hot air and insults.

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/venoxis/ovulation

A parse from me.
I wonder how that would make any argument more or less valuable tho.

well besides showing that pvp gear is enough for naxx25, and that, given where i am performance wise, the mix from heroics/badges/pvp is already overgeared compared to the standart required for naxxramas.

Edit: Oh and that also should explain why “people like me” dont post on a “legit character”. I simply can not post with my main characters on the US forums, such is life.

[Riger-arugal]

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

Edit: Oh and that also should explain why “people like me” dont post on a “legit character”. I simply can not post with my main characters on the US forums, such is life.

Fair enough.

@Huntthorgast-aegwynn

I wonder how that would make any argument more or less valuable tho.

It lends you more credibility when you start hurling insults and gloating by sprouting on about “copium” - though not by much.

I mean, your grey parsing prebis geared Fury sort of bolsters my point really …

[Huntthorgast-aegwynn]

@Riger-arugal

I mean, your grey parsing prebis geared Fury sort of bolsters my point really …

Well the one bosslog where one player obviously failed and stood in the slime during the whole patchwork fight… proves what ? That people can fail ?

I mean you could also take my KT parse where i dealt 9,5k dmg in total according to the log, bcause i did not attack KT due to not taking up a meele slot, and tankind the adds is not getting tracked as dmg done
its also a grey parse^^

Focusing on singular parses is never proving anything, or would my opinion suddenly be more valuable due to having 6 99 parses in one raid ?

[Auril-stormrage]

You might wanna visit a class discord lmao