pretty sure getting killed by arthas and being raised as undead was not part of her plan
nor failing to kill arthas when he was fleeing eastern kingdon
nor running away from arthas in halls of reflection
Nor getting headshot by godfrey
nor losing to genn in stormhiem
nor getting man-handled by malfurion in WoT
nor losing her temper and losing control of the horde (seriously, if her plan was to create as much death…why would she throw in the towel BEFORE the biggest battle in the war?)
Or failing to kill bwonsamdi
Like, have you been playing wow for a few months? because there is not a single character who loses more often than sylvanus. Its just that she knows how to dust herself off and start her next plan.
I don’t think they are being honest. I think the word they may be looking for is plot armor and please don’t get me started on that. The Alliance leaders has that belt on lock.
No way they think Sylvanas is a bigger Mary Sue than the pc.
Literally none of these negatively affected her. Godfrey glocked her and she lost some Val’kyr but that means nothing because the Jailer is giving her infinite number of those.
Genn destroying the lamp again meant nothing because the Jailer is giving her infinite Val’kyr.
She got “man-handled” by Malfurion and yet nothing bad happened to her, she still succeeded in what she wanted, killing as many Night Elves as possible.
And she lost her temper and was thrown out of the Horde after successfully getting many Horde and Alliance killed to fuel her and the Jailer. How did that negatively affect her?
Same as failing to kill Bwonsamdi, how has that negatively affected her? She took that L but was meaningless.
The only ones that really affected her was Arthas killing her. So that’s one.
even if we take everything you said at face value, you are still proven wrong because you said all her L’s were part of her plan. Now you are shifting the goalpost by saying her L’s dont really matter.
Considering all of those L’s take place after the Edge of Night story, where she originally met the Jailer and began their relationship (Those are Blizzard’s words not mine), yes I would say all of that is “part of her plan”.
How? What I stated is true, Blizzard retconned and said that when Sylvanas killed herself at ICC that is when she first meets the Jailer and they begin working together. That is a fact. I don’t like it, but it is what they said. So in theory, everything that has happened since has been part of her plan.
She failed to kill the LK, which was her only goal in life(pardon the pun). Instead she let her 2nd in command, a dreadlord, start an uprising which got more Forsaken killed, lost control of UC, lost her opportunity to kill Arthas.
Should I continue? Like I’ve heard all this for over a decade so I’m well equipped.
okay, i apoligize for the previous post. but to delve in, you are saying that all of those Ls are part of her plan. Meaning that she engaged in all of those with the SPECIFIC purpose of losing, she never intended to succeed in any of them.
…why?
none of them make any sort of sense. So she wanted to get shot in the head by godfrey? she wanted genn to stop her? she wanted to get bodied by malfurion and be saved by suarfang? she wanted to lose control of the horde and stop the bloodshed and preventing the horde and alliance from completely being spent RIGHT before she is going to be in full conflict with both?
I can see maybe one or two of those being twisted in blizzard fashion (and even that is a stretch), but all of them? like, if the loss was part of the plan, then the loss has to serve a purpose, and so far every single loss has screwed her.
I feel that if you have to buy into the premise that all of Sylvanas’s failures didn’t actually matter because of giant retcons just to say that she’s a Mary Sue, then I think you’re not really talking about a character with which to apply the label anymore. She’s so thoroughly disassembled and haphazardly glued back together that there’s barely any character left to criticize.
You’re all good. I am just saying with the atrocious retcon of Edge of Night, it makes literally everything seem like it is all part of her plan, because effectively this has been her endgame. If she has been with the Jailer since the end of Wrath, then everything from Cata on, in theory is “part of her plan”, or just doesn’t matter and has no impact on her. (Like Godfrey shooting her and her “losing” her Val’kyr to bring her back. Or Genn destroying the lamp because she already had unlimited access to Val’kyr from the Jailer.)
See what I mean? Blizzard’s horrible retcon makes everything post-Wrath look like some giant 4D chess game she has been playing and planning, so no matter what happens it is “part of her plan”. As much as I think that doesn’t make sense.
All good, friend. My point was merely while I don’t see Sylvanas as a Mary Sue, she doesn’t really have many flaws or anything because Blizzard likes to write everything as part of her plan, to me that just makes her a boring villain. OR at least that is the vibe I have gotten since the made the retcon, which is just awful.
It’s actually yet another thing that bugs me about the worgen story. In-game, Sylvanas really shouldn’t have been the proper main antagonist for their story; the whole introduction to put them into the alliance was a hokey thing about Garrosh wanting a damn port of all things, and they were already lining him up as the main horde villain. It just seems like the more pragmatic thing for Sylvanas to do would be to try to ally with them instead; after all, her last attempt to do so via the blood elves was successful, and it’s a hell of a lot less bloody to just annex and ally with neighbors instead of going to war.
But Blizzard needed an excuse to make the Gilnean worgen alliance and they really wanted to push that werewolf VS zombie thing at the time, so Sylvanas suddenly WaNtEd To TaKe OvEr ThE wOrLd and began her shift from character to cartoon voodoo doll. And it seems like she never recovered from that direction.
If the focus had shifted back to Garrosh where it originally belonged, then part of the Gilnean story could have been resolved long ago.
I think they also couldn’t resist the fact that the two territories bordered each other. I’m sure it looked like a juicy orcs-vs-night-elves type layout, and let’s not forget that the city of Gilneas was envisioned as a massive urban PvP area. Orcs vs worgen wouldn’t offer those same opportunities.
shes as much as a night elf as she is a nightborne, blood elf or void elf. That sword can cut bothways.
Ardenweald has forests, so unless you mean all forests is night elf. then…
Its the resting place of loas and wild gods. The reason why you dont see loas initially, is that they died after the rules of death were shattered.