Isn’t that kind of the point? They were denied their death.
In the Arthas book Sylvanas described the experience as excruciating… why would anyone willingly do that to more people and make them live in a rotting body for all eternity?
So Forsaken (and all other undead) dying out is kind of a natural order of things isn’t it?
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Death is one of the Cosmic Forces, and is just as natural as the rest. Forsaken are no less natural than humans, who are descendants of titan creations cursed by the Old Gods.
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Death yes is natural. Undeath not so much, the whole reason undeath is on Azeroth is because of Zovaal right? In Shadowlands they also talk about the great cycle of Death and Rebirth with the Winterqueen on one end of that equation and Elune on the other.
Things are suppose to do die. If everyone who died stayed on in the living world as undead Shadowlands would collapse from the lack of Anima.
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Yeah, that was a bad argument. You’re right.
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Could you elaborate further?
You destroyed my argument, that’s all. I wasn’t talking about your argument. Should have been clearer.
Oh I am sorry I misunderstood. I thought I made a bad argument so I thought to clarify better what I meant. My mistake.
No worries.
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They really are the flip-floppiest of all Night Elves. Looking at you Maiev.
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We do see Forsaken in Bastion however, so it’s not like all Forsaken are evil… or automatically judged as such.
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sigmas character
With the Helm of Domination being forged into the Crown of Wills and - I believe - Arbiter Pelagos coming to wear it, the remaining Scourge might just get their free wills back with Zovaal’s domination magic undone.
I never said that all Forsaken are evil. I’ve literally never said that. Amadis already mentioned that there is a Forsaken in Bastion, we already had that discussion. Did you have another point or something new to add?
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The point being that other than Sylvanas, Undead don’t seem to really have the excuse of Undeath making them do things, they are still the people they were in life just with a slightly muted version of their old personalities and personages.
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I never said undeath made them do things. What I said is necromancy affects the undead in a variety of way. I’ve even admitting that some undead are exactly the same as they were in life, basically leaving them with a simple skin condition.
Edit: Maybe its your wording, maybe I’m not getting what you’re trying to say and I apologize for that.
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There’s also different types of Forsaken backgrounds. Ones who were raised traumatically and those who were raised by Sylvanas. All forsaken have varying degrees of trauma from being raised.
Newer generations have less trauma.
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Ultimately there is likely no way to judge souls that doesn’t take into account everything that they have experienced. Every force has a way to alter a mind irreparably. Undead aren’t a special exception when lined up along with the Lightbound, forced mechanization, people infested by the Botani, or people with their brains melted by Fel or Void.
Even in the river of souls, Gorgoa, we see souls brainwashed by Old God forces screaming out:
- Sk’yahf qi’plahf PH’MAGG!
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The rules of necromancy seem to be really, really vague, so when a character behaves deranged because Blizzard needs them to while others who behave like it’s just another Tuesday makes it all seem way too arbitrary.
Back when Summermoon and Sira switched sides they told us they didn’t have time to tell us why they joined the Horde. Which seems like a total dodge by the writers to explain their writing decision regarding these two characters.
Like why did they even raise the Night Elves for? What purpose did they serve in BFA that their existence was necessary for?
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They seemed to have been aware Elune sacrificed them.
To have outright said this in 8.1 would have spoiled 9.1. I don’t think the writers had the story down that far in advance so they left it vauge.
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^^This is what bothers me.
You would think that the place that specialize in necromancy and souls could separate the “dark magic” aka necromancy from the soul and judge the whole soul, (edit: and not this new partial soul thing born of necromancy.)
From what I’ve gathered, the souls of the undead are partially attached to their corpses. My immediate thought was “well if the soul is partially attached, where is the other part?” and then I go “how are they affected by this partial attachment?” We’ve been told that the Forsaken rarely experience positive emotions. So, I can at least nail that one trait to the wall. Later cdev got into frenzied undead, okay that’s cute but it was still nothing solid. The nail in the coffin was Steve’s interview were he outlined necromancy and it affects.
It was really nice to have been validated after all those years of speculation about necromancy and it’s effects. Lord knows it doused the “Sylvanas is MC’ing everyone” crowd. I really was hoping that they would elaborate on necromancy but Alas, they’ve only touched necromancy in the afterlife…
I’ll post Steve’s interview as a refresher, I would hate not back up my comments.
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Zovaal and the Primus are obviously not perfect beings. Zovaal clearly doesn’t have a better idea for judging souls. His gavel literally sends a soul to an unfair fate:
The Primus never expected Zovaal to be able to weaponize the domination magic he was bound with. And none of the other pantheons, be it the Titans or Elune’s or otherwise, are any less fallible.
There is likely no force in the setting that can make life or death fair.