Mythic+/Mythic ES

[anon97691142]

@Shadina-gorefiend

The entire point to M+ is the timer though. By removing the timer, you completely remove any and all stakes. It would literally be just to go complete something and then be done for the week without any chance of failure.

I think you overestimate the skill of groups. The higher the keys, the more likelihood of wiping at least once.

[Fronzak-thrall]

Ok. But they shouldn’t drop the same level gear, since one is much more difficult than the other. And so then nobody would then do the non e-sport one. And we are back at square 1.

[Aveldruid-frostmourne]

If you don’t like the timer then press the arrow to shrink your quests and the m+ interface goes with it. Then get a weak aura or addon to count the %.

Problem solved. You’re welcome

[anon97691142]

@Fronzak-thrall

Ok. But they shouldn’t drop the same level gear, since one is much more difficult than the other. And so then nobody would then do the non e-sport one. And we are back at square 1.

Yeah, reward should be equal to effort here. M+ Level 5 should be equally as hard as M ES Level 5. If that means that the mobs hit harder in M+, then that is okay.

[Aruk-llane]

@Pouiya-drakthul

Or maybe people can get over the idea that the timer means anything

That’s unlike to occur with this community.

[Aveldruid-frostmourne]

@anon97691142

M+ Level 5 should be equally as hard as M ES Level 5. If that means that the mobs hit harder in M+, then that is okay.

Impossible to balance. People cried so loud when operation mechagon was released it was hotfixed before the week was out because it was “over tuned”. Idk if slower harder hitting dungeons are as popular as you think.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Aveldruid-frostmourne

Idk if slower harder hitting dungeons are as popular as you think.

I think people who ask for them also have a really, really thick pair of rose colored glasses on.

they’re thinking back to things like the 4 hour (or longer!) LBRS runs.

And, as classic has shown us, if you put us in LBRS quality gear/abilities we’d probably smash through it in half an hour now.

we are different players now than we were then.

to make a timerless m+ give on-par rewards to a timed m+, that timerless version would have to be 5 levels or more higher in difficulty.

because when you can cc every mob in a pack but one, and then proceed to kill them one at a time, you are removing 95% of the difficulty from the dungeon.

[Liana-maelstrom]

@anon97691142

You successfully complete the dungeon if your group does not wipe (all players dead at the same time).

This is the thing that bothers me the most about the current M+. It rewards play that’s fast and sloppy: letting people die is no big deal.

M+ would be a lot better if a wipe meant you didn’t time. Maybe they should increase the time penalty for death to 2 minutes or so, instead of the current 5 seconds.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Liana-maelstrom

. It rewards play that’s fast and sloppy:

it doesn’t reward sloppy play at all. you lose 5 seconds for every death, not to mention the run back time.

@Liana-maelstrom

letting people die is no big deal.

what?

@Liana-maelstrom

M+ would be a lot better if a wipe meant you didn’t time.

it often does.

sure, not if all you’re doing is trivial levels, but when you push into higher difficulties, sometimes one wipe in the wrong spot means the timer is done.

[Liana-maelstrom]

@Skyedge-stormrage

Also try organizing a pug group that can go without a lot of deaths.

You could do that without a timer. No timer would mean you’d have time to explain pulls in chat, wait until everyone was ready, etc.

[Liana-maelstrom]

@Radamänthys-bleeding-hollow

Until you are doing high keys there’s no way you’ll fail the timer if the group didn’t wipe in the first place.

Not true under the OP definition of “wipe”. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a wipe on trash where all 5 players were dead at the same time.

On Fortified weeks, it’s easy to rack up enough failed pulls and deaths on trash without ever getting a full wipe.

[Liana-maelstrom]

@Annastasi-proudmoore

@Liana-maelstrom

. It rewards play that’s fast and sloppy:

it doesn’t reward sloppy play at all. you lose 5 seconds for every death, not to mention the run back time.

5 seconds is way quicker than explaining a pull and making sure everyone is on the same page in chat. Better to pull and play sloppy than to make sure a pickup group is in sync and play correctly.

That’s rewarding sloppy play.

when you push into higher difficulties, sometimes one wipe in the wrong spot means the timer is done.

Blizzard keeps nerfing the dungeons to eliminate the wrong spots, though. I miss when wiping on the last boss in Shrine meant a runback from the beginning of the dungeon - with an extra death if you missed the jump.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Liana-maelstrom

5 seconds is way quicker than explaining a pull and making sure everyone is on the same page in chat. Better to pull and play sloppy than to make sure a pickup group is in sync and play correctly.

m+ isn’t designed for the pug experience.

if you have people in your pugs who don’t know the fights, 1) they don’t belong in keys and 2) you should have chosen more wisely.

The time to talk about fights, or even individual trash pulls, is before the key starts.

[Liana-maelstrom]

It’s not just for pickup groups. It’s for any group that’s not in voice.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

I don’t think we need to design the m+ experience around players who go into keys unprepared and unwilling to use voice coms.

[Liana-maelstrom]

Designing the game to require voice is the one biggest cause of declining subscribership.

[Natalya-thorium-brotherhood]

This seems like another silly suggestion to justify equivalent loot for those who underperform.

I have no problems if they release another system provided the loot is strictly inferior. Timers add pressure, as you said. That added pressure should mean better loot.

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

@Liana-maelstrom

Designing the game to require voice is the one biggest cause of declining subscribership

sorry, but that’s just a lie. we’ve been using voice comes for organized group activities since vanilla.

@Natalya-thorium-brotherhood

This seems like another silly suggestion to justify equivalent loot for those who underperform.

100% this

[Raiyyn-area-52]

@Saeba-thrall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEzhg6HtASU great video although he cusses throughout it so if you get offended by that then don’t I guess.

He’s pretty funny. And totally not wrong.

@OP: No. Terrible idea.

[Liana-maelstrom]

To the contrary. Voice was not required for any content in early expansions if your players were competent; it was a crutch for weak groups.