You don’t have to time keys, you still get loot and a weekly…
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Honestly, I think all the hating on the timer is more of an excuse than a real reason. Until you get to relatively high keys where the DPS requirement to meet the timers are tight, the timer is not what limits you in any way, you can full-wipe 5 times and still finish in time.
What happens 95% of the time is that the group wipes 2-3 times to a boss (or before it), then someone gets frustrated and quits. It’s not really because “oh we won’t beat the timer” that the person quit, is more like “I’m not willing to spend 2h wiping over and over to try to get this done”.
You get loot even by not making the timer, doesn’t that mean that you successfully completed the dungeon? I mean you got the reward for it.
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Ultimately another complaint about getting the best loot for minimal effort (or cheesing).
IGNORE the timer and still get loot.
Yup need to be more picky with whom you group or find a guild/friends that don’t care if you’re bad. Me personally I don’t think you should be rewarded with consolation prizes, weekly cache, untiming m+, afking lfr, visions need to be more difficult when you can get like 5 pieces of gear a week which is probably more you get elsewhere barring any rng in raid on all difficulties.
Back on topic for what the OP proposed, more alternatives are a good thing, the only consideration with his proposal is that if he wants the non-timed M+ to offer meaningful gear rewards then it needs to propose an appropriate challenge.
So dungeons would have to be harder overall under this scenario. But this actually means that there’s literally no reason to choose this over the timed version:
Until you are doing high keys there’s no way you’ll fail the timer if the group didn’t wipe in the first place. So choosing this un-timed version is literally just choosing to make the dungeon harder for no reason, you could have chosen the timed version to have an easier dungeon to then play to not wipe (the same way as in the un-timed version) and guarantee make the timer.
So honest question, do you think people wouldn’t be more upset that one wipe ruins the entire run, versus a timer that you can just deplete and wipe as much as you want?
That doesnt really seem like a good compromise in any sense of the word.
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I feel like they’re over reaching tbh, not saying you should feel bad and stay where you are but you should be putting more effort into bettering your game play before expecting to do end game content. To me and I’m sure most mythic raiders/high key runners 15s are a joke. The best advice I can give is find a guild/friends especially a tank that is eager to learn. If you have a competent tank the rest is easy to fill in, finding competent tanks in pugs is pretty rough tbh.
I think the system is fine where it is, like I said before there are different skill levels/brackets of player, if you fit in a 10-12key skill level then do that until you get better and have more exp to get into higher keys, same goes for raid. You don’t immediately start out in heroic as a new player, you go to lfr then normal then heroic and eventually mythic if that’s your goal. I still think blizzard gives out too much loot though, doesn’t give you any gratification what so ever, just passive shards/currency.
What are you even talking about? are you sure you read what I wrote? or maybe you are answering the wrong person?
I’m pretty sure I have more progress in Raiding and M+ than you dude, I mean I’ve not been playing for a few months so I don’t have anything for the past couple of raids but I did get a cutting-edge for BOD and got all 15+ keys done in S1 and S2 when it was harder before taking a break.
Seriously re-read what I wrote.
I don’t understand what the big deal of the timer is. You do know the dungeon doesn’t end when the timer does, right? You can just keep going and complete it at whatever pace you choose.
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Wasn’t directing it at you and nah you aren’t further progressed no offense. It was just what you were commenting on, just too lazy to link it into my post heh.
Oh ok I see yeah the answer just made no sense to what I posted, and ok I guess I only really picked up this toon for BOD so doesn’t really show much of my progress on it’s profile, just the cutting-edge I guess.
Nah I can see you got jaina, I did as well but I sat for mekka and stormwall cause was gearing up bench players, was near when my guild died but I got the second mount 
before it disbanded
What would be the point of this mode? If you can complete a +15 without wiping once, you can complete a +15 without worrying about the timer.
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I said this in the other (very similar) thread:
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M+ and raiding are inherently competitive game play, if you don’t want to do competitive game play there are m0s, lfr norm and heroic which who care’s who parses in those and those are already easy enough to do casually in a guild.
When pugging is concerned people expect more than what they would expect in their guild or friends, I wouldn’t play a game with my brother as he’s total garbage at any game he plays, nor would I put my expectations of pushing really hard and getting mad and replacing a guildie as you have more leniency.
Pugs however are filled with people trying to accomplish something and get it done as efficiently as possible, they don’t care if you’re new, boosted, they just want competent players. Heck even pugs that are 460 ilvl don’t have aotc and require 475 mythic raiders know this, pugs suck and they know that unless you make crazy requirements they won’t get anything done. But even then with how much gear they throw at us you can’t use aotc or ilvl as a reliable metric to decide whether or not to invite someone, this is where raiderio comes into play although a terrible system still has some use.
Before it was wowprogress or armory, legion I used the amount of dungeons you completed in time. I ran over 2,000 dungeons in like the first 6 months or what ever and I wouldn’t consider you unless you had over 300 at that point, it wasn’t anywhere near the amount I ran but to me that was a reasonable # to show me that you were putting in the time and effort.
The other thing I don’t understand as a fresh player never having ever touched wow, just because you sub doesn’t mean you should be able to hop right into m+15s after hitting 120, the system scales with your skill level. So if you’re having trouble with a 15 it downgrades to a 14, try again and keep trying. If you finally time a 12 then you know around a 12 key is doable, farm them and learn the mechanics and push later.
I feel like people think you should only be doing 14-15s for the max ilvl even when you just got out of lfr, I mean yeah go ahead and try but it would make more sense to start at normal raid next or go do a +5 for a 445 piece, then a +8 then a +10 and keep gearing up, people seem to want to skip all that and go from 430 overall equipped to 465.
Mythic + isn’t mythic + without the timer.
Ignore the bleeding timer and play the game. If you’re constantly shaking at the thought of a clock you should probably delete time itself–and good luck doing that.
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use this link and scroll down to loot, why would they have different ilvl of loot from 2-15 if all you had to do is level and immediately start doing 15shttps://mythicpl.us/
You can do M+ without the timer right now. Just ignore it and and complete the dungeon.
Man, failing your entire key because one person didn’t do a mechanic right leading to a wipe sounds a lot more tilting than the current system of racing the timer with a time penalty per death.
Edit: or because someone got a distracted by their adorable pet and accidentally pulled an extra pack leading to the same fatal result.
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Why does the playerbase have an issue with being put into a place they apparently deserve to be?
If your key is downgraded because you can’t find a group, there’s a solution to this issue that’s existed in this game since the very beginning.
If you refuse to join a guild or develop a consistent group, maybe you’re just where you’re supposed to be and getting any farther is just luck from good pugs.