- Limited. M+ i can spam to get what i need
- GV limited to one piece a week. Easier to get spamming m+
- Sure but also limited and requires the raid boss to die. I still get crests from an untimed key…not to mention unlimited up to seasonal cap
- m9 gives gilded for the higher end of Hero gear to upgrade in the event that the double affix of 10 keys provides too much of a wall
- intentional
Season 1 is a skill check you either pass it or you don’t. I think Blizzard is forcing the playerbase to learn the game more to improve and it is meant to be a competitive form of content.
I don’t care about being competitive in them so I don’t bother usually.
The big question is if this is healthy for the game or not.
I’m gonna say it’s probably not great for it’s long-term life. The casuals can have a little Mythic gear, as a treat.
Idk if you design something with the intent of it being a challenge and it actually is a challenge I think that is good for it. As long as it is fair, challenging, and allows progression with skill then I see nothing wrong.
Dark Souls isn’t known for its fairness but its challenge and that feeling you get when you finally win.
Padgarre, Tower Ranger, Slayer of Zekvir, The Fearless
So would those guilds pick up literally anyone off the street that reaches out to them? Even players that may have never set foot in a raid, much less current one at heroic difficulty?
Do you think everyone who previously had success pushing to the max M+ rewards in previous seasons has the desire and the ability to schedule around a mythic raiding schedule?
Do you think these M+ players would know how to go about finding such guilds that would take them simply because they’re a warm body sitting around 619 item level?
This entire paragraph completely misses the entire point I was making. It’s not about whether the guild currently has or would be willing/able to carry some number of players in this manner. It’s about whether they would take someone they don’t know into their ranks, someone who might actually hurt their chances than simply running with fewer than 20. Just because a guild is currently running with 3 carries and 19 players doesn’t mean they’re handing out flyers in Dornogal to bring anyone with 610+ item level to their next raid in hopes that person can do something good before dying and isn’t solely responsible for wiping the raid.
Like I said, whether anyone agrees with your position about a 619 cap for anyone not capable of getting through +9s being acceptable, my point is your solution space is unrealistic for most players. Suggesting those players can easily waltz into any number of mythic raiding guilds that are desperate for anyone with a pulse and walk out with mythic raid gear as a way to get over that +9 hurdle is unrealistic. Even amongst the most mythic desperate raiding guilds, they would probably have to work their way up through heroic raid ranks to get some log data just to be considered.
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I mean, doing heroic raid to establish some logs and learn the encounters isnt hard… people ARE pugging the whole thing on both norm and heroic… there are even mythic pugs for the early bosses
At no point did I say it was hard. There are players who choose M+ because they can be done in 30-40 minute chunks whenever they have time. Joining a guild raid of any difficulty will require keeping a semi-regular schedule. Joining a PUG can easily take more than 30 minutes just to fill depending how active raids are at the time you’re looking to play for your region. Telling these players the answer is to just mythic raid isn’t really a solution.
Then to go one step further, even those players who are willing and able to do so, what you outlined isn’t necessarily a one season process. So even for the players for whom working up to a mythic raid is a viable option they’re willing to undertake. For many, it wouldn’t result in them being ready to go to achieve their goals this season, which is the problem we’re trying to solve.
As I’ve said a couple times now, I’m not even touching on whether it’s good for the game that any player who can’t turn a 20 item level deficit into success in +9s is facing this kind of solution space. Just that your suggested solution is not very realistic for many players who might find themselves in that position. Honestly just sheer practice in 8s to improve is probably a more realistic way to achieve the goal.
I fail to understand why it’s important for players to achieve all their goals. Where does this expectation come from that you’re going to end each season with 2 max crafted items and full mythic track bis?
If you can only play the game sporadically in 30-40 min spurts, maybe you should only expect gear commensurate to your playstyle and skill level?
Neither of those are insurmountable problems. In fact, the first is no different than somebody starting a raid they can’t lead.
The second can be solved by letting people downgrade their key.
That’s just off the top of my head. I’m sure there are even better solutions to these problems.
I have another suggestion that I think is solid.
It takes 15 Crests to do one upgrade on one item.
Dungeons only give like 11ish on a good day. Why? Just make it 15 Crests for completion and any extra you can get like normal. That way it just becomes One Dungeon = one item upgrade. No more of this 2fer madness.
Delve player get soft locked at 619 too.
Blizzard clearly doesn’t want us to gear up quickly. I don’t agree with it, but at least it keeps gilded crests in challenging content.
Aspect crests in the old 15s? Too easy. Even my mediocre self could farm aspect crests.
I don’t know when y’all decided that you were a failure unless you had the maximum possible ilevel before the next tier. It ain’t that serious.
That being said,
Give me gilded crests in Delve 11s, and you can have gilded crests in 7s.
For a lot of people, that expectation was built up over half a decade of that having been the case.
Setting that aside though, this entire question is a deflection. It’s not about what the gear will be by the end of a season, it’s where your progression stops. When considering delves awarded hero track gear out of vault from week 2 and hero track gear being farmable out of M+, it’s reasonable to expect many people who run M+ as a primary game mode to hit 619 within a couple months of the season. If after they hit 619 they aren’t quite able to push a +9, their progression in the season is done. Do you actually think it’s best for the game for those players to be done with the season that early because of how quickly we can reach that level?
Personally, if it seemed like the majority of players who run M+ as their primary mode would need 2/3 of the season or more to reach that level, it would be fine. I just think it’s too much of a sprint to get to that level and then the gearing dries up.
This is a strawman. I never said a player will only ever play in 30-40 minute spurts, just that such periods allow for the player to progress in keys in a way raid doesn’t. The point is that non-PUG raids basically require playing the same large blocks of time per week while M+ does not. PUG raids are friendlier for people who are committing the same blocks each week, but there’s a lot higher chance of failure and formation time with a PUG.
There are a lot more players to pick up the slack of an underperformer in a raid, even the technical raid leader. It’s common for the raid leader to defer strategy creation and execution to another player, making them the de facto leader.
This misses the point I was talking about entirely. The player has to recognize and be willing to drop their key after getting a key that was over their head. With automatic downgrading, the user doesn’t have to think about this and isn’t given the opportunity to opt out of the downgrade if they are confident it was just a minor oopsie. You just keep running the key that comes out of the dungeon regardless whether it went up or down and you are likely to always be around the level you belong.
Why do you expect so much attention on content that maybe, at the absolute most 3 or 4% of subscribers are going to touch.
+9 are still at less than 1% of subscribers afaik.
So don’t know why you think your content is so vitally important that Blizzard ignored 95% or more of subscribers just to cater to players serious about M+.
There are plenty of games that focus on competition more than wow. If that end game elitist content is important there are plenty of gaming options.
You guys are going to have to face facts. Hardly anyone does M+, especially over +7/8. Where does this entitlement come from. M+ isn’t and has never been a priority and hopefully stays that way.
I really don’t get the M+ mentality. Thousands upon thousands of games in the last 20 years to scratch that competitive itch. Please stop trying to ruin WoW with that garbage.
What can replicate m+ that isn’t wow?
I only agree with crests being lowered. theyre already an insane grind if youre behind or u create an alt mid season. Maybe +7 for gilded to match the end of dungeon hero drops. Mythic gear should not drop in M+… atleast not in the same sense that loot does now. people would be 629 week 2 of the season lmao
Yes. If you can’t find anything else to do in 20 years of content and you’ve reached your apex in the current season, why not? Might as well save the fifteen bucks until there’s new content for you to do.
This is somewhat an ok statemetn. but as op stated “almost impossible w/o an organized group”
it doesn’t matter how good you are there is always a dh out there to ruin your pug key. In df I could pug up to 13-14s and a couple of 15s. Now nope.
I would just spam delve 11s to cap in a day easy if that happened same with 7s not like it matters mythic 8 gives gilded now
you can’t do 3s and 5s?
Squish happened in S4.
Go away troll.
I meant 13-14, as in 23-24.