Mythic+ requires changes

Community General Discussion
1

I think you guys have gone a bit overboard with M+…

The changes that have taken place within Mythic+ leave a very large proportion of players trapped in staying at 619ilvl.

Glided Crests - the highest type of crest has been moved from M+6 to M+9 in TWW. This change has significant implications for character development and key playability.

No point in playing keys 2-9 - apart from single items like trinkets it completely loses the point of playing keys at this level.

  • Champion loot is easy to get from Delve
  • HC track gear from GV is easier and faster to get from Delve
  • Runed Crests from 4-8M+ are mostly obtainable from HC raid, which is mostly easier and faster than M+
  • M+9 doesn’t seem to make sense since the only reward is Glided Crests, people prefer to do M+10 because now there you have moved Mythic track gear from GV
  • Mythic+ seems to be tuning a lot harder this season

Playing higher Mythic+ without an organised group has become almost impossible (or at least terribly frustrating - much more so than before).

I know that these changes are due to an attempt to ‘buy time’ and prolong content (hence, for example, also the extension of the track upgrade mythic gear from 4 to 6, and the price increase from 60 to 90 Glided Crests items to Enchanted Crests - these changes alone will prolong content by about 6 weeks due to the cap limitation), but I don’t think this is the right way to go long term - people will get bored, frustrated by the lack of opportunities to develop their character effectively and will leave the game.

From my perspective, there should be a few changes

1) Restoration of Glided Crests to M+6

2) Restoration of Mythic track gear GV to M+8
Comment: these changes will revive keys 6-8, while M+10 will continue to be an attractive target due to the portals, and the higher keys a challenge for those wanting to play at a very high level indeed

3) Addition of Glided Crests to Delves 9-11
Comment: after gaining 619ilvl, continuing to play Delves does not seem to make any sense. Adding Glided Crests to higher Delves as a 5-8 completion reward would ensure that Delves remain an attractive form of character development throughout the season.

4) Removing the cap on Valorstones altogether, or increasing the cap in a similar way to Crests (e.g. by 500 per week).
Comment: Cap is a very annoying issue, because we either go from 2000/2000 when we don’t have Crests, wasting all the Valorstones gained (or rather, not gained due to cap), or when we finally collect Crests we get rid of the entire cap in a moment.

The above changes should improve the playability and sense of playability of the lower keys, improve the playability of Delves in the long term, and improve the feel of players in terms of their character development.

I know that there are voices in some people in these situations - ‘you can’t give away items for free’. And I know that this rhetoric comes from the fact that for players who play really high content (I mean keys like +15-17 like last season) really the only reward was just the highest Crests and Mythic track items GV, and the satisfaction of getting a rating.

And I will indeed agree that the feeling that by putting in the effort to complete M+15 you get the same reward as someone doing M+8 can be frustrating. But at the same time, adjusting the game for a few percent of the playerbase seems unreasonable. Instead, there should be some changes here too.

Currently, from my observations, on average a player gets 1 item for every 4 completed dungeons (again, I emphasise - this is an average. Of course it happens that you get an item 3 dungeons in a row, just as it happens that you don’t see it at all for 4 consecutive dungeons).

In my opinion, for keys from M+12 upwards, an item from Mythic track should fly at the end of a dungeon from the crate.
My argument about the average amount of item drops from dungeons didn’t come out of nowhere because I realise that if items dropped in a similar amount on M+12 keys then the core of PvE - Mythic raids - would suffer as a consequence. The change should be as follows:

  • Mythic+ at level +12 and above drops Mythic track gear
  • Mythic+ at level +12 and above have their droprate items doubled (average of 1 item per 8 dungeons)
  • Mythic+ at level +12 and above can only drop items in a chest at the end of a dungeon when that dungeon is completed in time

Comment:
This change will allow high key players to feel much more appreciated, at the same time the reduced droprate items will allow to keep the number of items at the highest level limited by time (each dungeon on average takes 30 minutes to complete, so 1 item is on average 4-5h of play; additionally note that this will be a random item so BiS farms at the highest level will be quite limited).

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2

If you can’t do 9s at 619, pug or not, you are probably at your limit for the season…

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3

I think mythic plus needs to take a backseat for a while until the blood pressure of its average player goes down a bit. I want to enjoy mythic plus again. It should be fun, not a chore that puts us all into bad habits. We run too fast, snipp at each other and gatekeep all to serve mythic plus. We gotta step back a bit.

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4

How long ago did this change happen?

5

Thats my issue with so many of these posts. There is more to do in this game than M+, yet every day, we get 20 posts from players complaining they can’t achieve Mythic ilevel super fast just grinding one form of content.

This is why I have always said that M+ was a mistake, or the reward structure that was in place since Legion was a mistake.

M+ automattically think they are being gatekeeped from rewards now, because Blizz up the difficulty of dungeons.

WoW has attracted a weird subset of gamers, I don’t see this nonsense in other MMOs I play, people complaining about not getting the best gear in game from lower difficulty content.

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Can you honestly say the changes to M+ have accomplished this, though? Do you feel like a +4 is a place where you can just chill in a PUG these days compared to a +4 in DF D4 or +14 in previous seasons?

I think it was a good change moving myth track items to +10, though having Gilded Crests at +9 seems a bit misguided given hero track requires those as well. But the key squish is putting a lot of players with wildly different skill levels and expectations into the same levels, which is always a recipe for conflict and toxicity. What used to be a phenomenon that lasted a week or two is likely going to persist the majority of the season.

I agree with your premise that players did need to reevaluate their own levels and expectations with M+, moving rewards up the difficulty ladder was good for this. I just don’t think the squish along with moving the rewards up is leading to a healthier environment.

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7

The problem is that the result would largely be the same regardless where up the difficulty ladder the rewards were placed. The toxicity this season is 100 percent coming from people trying to do content they arent ready for in order to get gear they think they deserve. Case in point, I saw a pug two days ago advertising a 12 with around 2200 io from untimed 7 and 8s. Thats insane.

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8

Sure, which I think is more to do with having a far wider range of players sitting in the same key brackets than we had in previous seasons before the DF S4 squish. This will probably be better going into S2 because some players will have the gear from S1 to get them into higher keys sooner, but it’s still going to be an issue where there aren’t enough gaps between key X and X + 1 especially at the low end for there to be clear differentiation between which players belong in which difficulty levels.

9

So your idea is that next season the pushers will already have such a leg up that they bypass the bads entirely? Plausible i guess, but only if the top rewards levels are still farther from the max push levels then they probably shoupd be.

10

I understand OPs logic in incentivizing the key 1 level lower before the affix to help open a path for players who are currently not able to complete the next level instead of feeling walled. I think m track vault at 9 and gilded at 8 would be more fair and in line with what is currently implemented

I strongly agree that even a 2 gilded crest drop from 9-11 delves per bountiful would give some (where it’s currently 0) incentive for geared players to continue delves. There are those who would like a mythic track option for delve but that is a polarizing opinion. I think a small amount of gilded currency drop is a great idea and a fair middle ground

Valorstones are currently universally unpopular. I strongly agree that the currency should not be capped in the same way that resonant crystals are not capped. Many advocate for their removal entirely

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11

I agree ditch valorstones. I currently have like 100 plus gilded crests i cant use because i simply cant get the stones fast enough. Its frustrating to say the least.

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12

Or simply removed entirely. The only players that seem to be causing uproars lately are the minority M+ers. They hate on Delves cause they couldn’t do M0 without them. They hate on M9s and 10s cause they refused to do 0-8 and forget that 0 is the new 10. Mythics are just the cause of a lot of chaos, and as someone who has not touched M+ since Shadowlands, here is my take on it:

I think Blizz is tired of creating a WHOLE tier of difficulty for content that only the minority plays, and subs are with the Casuals who love all this open world stuff and gearing options. Maybe Blizz is sabotaging M+ in an effort to remove it after Last Titan and return to Normals and Heroics only. I am not a conspiracy theorist and could care less about Mythics, but the only other logical reason would be, they are focused on more important stuff and for the first time in 3 expansions, mythics are taking a back seat, and for the first time EVER, casuals are finally being seen and catered to.

Just my opinion. None of it is a fact.

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13

That’s too low. Players should at least have to put up with Challenger’s Peril if they’re going to be getting gilded crests at the end of the run.

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14

I think you see this very one sided without an in-depth thought to it.

So if my skill level means I can’t get into much less complete a 9 key. And I reach 619 should I just unsub?

Also there are like 3 things to do in game that have any value.

Raids ( lfr, normal, heroic, mythic )
Mythic keys
World Quests ( open world stuff, heroics, delves )

I personally take part in all of the above.

For the category world quests I will do them until I max reknown, and have all hero gear, then I won’t step into another delves until likely next season ( unless something changes ).

Raids - I won’t do lfr or normal unless on an alt, heroic I will do until I get everything I need. And mythic I will do until I get everything I need or my guild decides to break until next season.

Mythic keys - I run until the end of season because I enjoy the content more than anything else. Also I play 3 toons so the mythics keep me busy. I have timed 9 and 10s on my monk and shaman and now working on the paladin. So I am not complaining but I can understand where the OP is coming from.

I would think there are several people who only partake in one of the 3. And honestly I personally don’t care if the people who only do world quests have access to mythic gear because what they do doesn’t affect me in any way.

But the truth is the difficulty curve from even a 9 going to a 10 is super steep, and judging by the responses on these forums it is a huge issue…

In closing please do me one favor and answer the question. If skill level ( as you put it ) means I get locked at 619 gear. That essentially becomes end game for me. Should I unsub because I can’t push any harder?

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15

Yes. Or find some other content you enjoy, or raid log. The answer is not to cheapen rewards so people can get dopamine hits from acquiring player power they dont deserve. If your whole reason for playing is to inceease your ilvl, at which point you quit when you get as far as you can go, you arent eliminating your problem, just dragging it out. Essentially what your saying is that you want to feel onpar with the best players in the game having the same gear, even though you had to do less to get it, at which point youll leave regardless.

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16

619 is enough for 9s

17

Not entirely, but there will be less time for cohabitation. Players started endgame a good 50+ item levels off max going into this season, meaning we all had to gear over from fresh. Assuming next season is a standard 39 item level jump, many players who are in high hero and mythic track gear from S1 simply won’t need the veteran and possibly even champion level gear from next season to succeed in +7s and above the way they did this season.

18

What I learned healing m+ the first week of the season is that the average player in this game is absolutely terrible and should be doing world quest content, not dungeons with mechanics to pay attention to.

Made me quit the game. cbf playing with brainlets that have 0 idea whats going on or how to press their buttons with all the resources available.

1 Like
19

M+8 is bad too, people just make their key a 7 again and keep on farming hero gear, GV reward and crests is the same as an 8 so why bother?

Absolutely NOT, I’d say M+8 on a hybrid crest drop like 9 & 3 and 4 & 1 is more suitable.

GV M+9 IMO.

IF and a big IF, only at 11 and rewarding something like 3 per run.

In the end people who would farm gilded @ Delves will only fully upgrade heroic and not getting Myth gear which is reasonable.

Never gonna happen, devs want to squeeze the most time out of a season.

This would be interesting for sure.

20

That’s crazy that you would prefer someone to unsub which ultimately will affect your gameplay. Less money = less content. The to acknowledge the 1000s of posts on here might have a point. For no reason other than stroking your ego.

Luckily blizzard will likely adjust this next season maybe even this season.

3 Likes