This is borderline disingenuous. The option to log in do, raid in 1 night, then not play the rest of the week still exists. There are players in my guild who do exactly that. M+ did not take that away from you.
What no longer exists is the situation where everyone else is forced to play that way because of a lack of other options. What’s missing in what you said, and most people who echo this sentiment, is that the pressure to play more than whatever amount of time you want to play is self-imposed. You can at any time decide to go play an alt or another game. Just with modern WoW the possibility exists for others to keep working on one character and continue to be rewarded.
Your argument boils down to wanting to control how everyone plays the game so you can remain competitive with everyone else with how you want to play the game. But outside of the absolute upper limits of content, you can experience everything the game has to offer without playing WoW as much as those other players. And the players who are willing to put the time and effort into pushing those upper limits are likely doing other things that you’d probably find to be pretty degenerate if running M+ is an activity you draw the line at.
When will we stop pretending like nobody genuinely likes M+ as a mode? Sure, M+ from the perspective of someone who wants to do other things is just another grind they choose to do to reach their goals faster. But from the perspective of someone who actually likes M+, it’s a great addition to the game giving us a far more accessible mode that doesn’t become obsolete within a month or 2 of reaching max level.
While this is true, the RNG nature of what you “miss” from M+ also means players who don’t miss a week can still be “forever” behind. I mean strictly speaking, anyone who doesn’t get a BIS vault item through RNG in roughly 60% of the weeks of a season will be “forever” behind, unless they have access to mythic raid gear.
Well, you are the perfect customer for Blizzard these days.
I wonder how many people enjoy repititve gear grinding like M+? I really don’t think M+ fixed the lack of content during raid off nights. It is just reptitive gear grind to keep players grinding the same small amount content.
It doesn’t matter how repetitive you think something is. Remember people still play league of legends, on 1 map, on 1 game mode, sometimes only playing 1 character, for years on end.
If the gameplay itself is fun, people will play it. All of wow is a waste of time. Why does it matter how you waste it?
raid logging is probably the least fun option of them all.
I’d argue that mythic raiding with pointless instance locks ruined raiding… Blizz removed locks from normal/hero because they made no sense and ruined the raiding experience, but kept it in Mythic for “competitive guild play”, AKA pointless barrier to kill any PUG attempting the raid.
M+ is great, played by the majority, and has replayability for either gear or score. It has as much replayability as arenas, which is way better than 1x weekly lockout of raid, where 1 guy leaves because he has his vault and now 19x people are done for 7 days. Raiding is a clown show, drastically over hyped, and clearable by a lot more people, but who wants to organize 20x people just to carry 10, and probably have people leave? What’s the other option? Join some sweaty guild and waste several week days? M+ fixes all of this.
I’d still play M+ even if it didn’t drop any gear. I know many people who also would.
Players of all types of games will always take the path of least resistance.
But the reason has nothing to do with path of least resistance, being easy, or being fast…
It’s the fact that it is a system that allows me to use my game time to continuously make my character stronger, and character progression is what I enjoy about MMOs/WoW.
Take the rewards from M+, and no one would play it.
I’ve been playing MMOs for 20 years, and M+ is the most boring, anti-MMO system I have ever seen implemented into a MMO. It doesn’t cater to MMO players one bit, it is system that exists solely to maximize play time on a small set of recyled content.
If M+ was truly popular like everyone thinks it is, Blizzard would be putting more investment into dungeons, but we can clearly see that is not their focus.
It was a clever way to basically keep players like you satisfied without having to make new content.
Just another crap system they copied from Diablo 3.
I don’t honestly want to continue debating double standards. Your preferred way of playing is not the prescribed way of playing.
Raid logging is, personally, extremely bad for the game. You don’t participate in the game for the rest of the week. Imagine if everyone did that, would you like a ghost town of a game? I wouldn’t.
I’m honestly floored you believe raiding is not as repetitive as M+ is. They’re both 100% scripted fights. The only difference is the amount of people and how you complete it.
Once upon time back in BC, I remember doing endless hours of PVP to get raid ready. Funny thought.
Anyway, mythic plus did not ruin the game. It saved it. Competitive content for smaller friend groups and with smaller, bite size time commitments too has always been an excellent idea.
The problem is people self imposing limits on themself. They want to do the hardest level of content in the game and they want to have the highest item level possible at that stage of the season while doing it.
And that’s totally fine if that’s what they find fun. Not everyone else does though. Lots of people play different tiers and types of content and it wouldn’t be right to nerf their fun, just because the lane you chose is making you miserable.
If you don’t enjoy min/maxing to that degree then maybe you just don’t enjoy cutting esge raiding afterall and would be happier in a friendly guild plugging away at heroic.
Also, if you killed everything outside of raids there wouldn’t be raids anymore anyway because that would actually be a real wow killer.
And all the keys run beyond where gear rewards stop? There are more such keys run than there are total mythic raid bosses killed every season. If players only cared about gear, those keys would never be run except as a stepping stone for the players who will make it to title.
You can replace M+ with any other activity in basically any other video game and this statement would be true.
You’re strawmanning here. Saying gear isn’t the only reason I run M+ is not equivalent to saying I would run M+ even if it rewarded no gear.
You have always needed to do other content in order to get ready for raiding.
did you never farm a trinket in a dungeon for just one boss encounter?
did you never farm a fire resist set, or a nature resist set with gear that came from dungeons and not other raids?
did you never spend 2 weeks grinding reputation for a trinket that was your BiS and mandated by your raid leader?
did you never run BGs to get an exalted reputation to get the weapon you must have to get a raid slot?
did you never farm a single boss encounter to hope that you could get the neck drop and not the other 39 people in the encounter?
m+ is a great way to potentially fill in gear slots that you need to progress in your raiding, or at least get crests/stones to upgrade the gear you have.
Don’t necessarily agree with this. Given we had at least two expansions prior where the most you were doing outside raiding were some semi optional rep grinds more equivalent to what people did for the epic cloak during DF pre season.
I enjoy m+ so I’m kinda lucky in that regard but other members of my guild drag themselves through 4 dungeons a week for the first few months and would rather do literally anything else than anything higher than a 10.
I do understand that in theory people may enjoy a difficult raid, but not slogging thru other content to gear themselves for it, but that’s the path they intentionally chose so there is no good answer to this really as you can’t have one without the other.
As long as as literally any other content has even remotely useful gear to them (them being mythic raiders) at any point, they will do it. And they are doing this to themselves because anything less than the best isn’t good enough in their books. The only way Blizz could fix this for them would be to remove all other gear sources outside of high end raiding and that would completely ruin the game, and amusingly so, given this thread’s title.
