Mythic plus ruined this game

[Julaalu-lightninghoof]

@Sabbia-moonrunner

Clearly the only solution is to delete raiding.

Delete M+ keep Raiding.

[Aussielight-dathremar (Aussielight)]

@Akston-area-52

M+ rewards need to be tempered, while raiding rewards need to be drastically increased.

THIS.

Seriously though.

@Sabbia-moonrunner

Clearly the only solution is to delete raiding.

At the very least, they should add perhaps even some particular separate-lockouts tied to unique setups of raid groups. Such as, but not limited to:

• Raid groups that are of a particular size (not flexible).

• Raid groups with set amount of classes (or cap of having a particular one – This would also assist removing an overhaul of a class that is meta at the time)

• Raids with a ‘challenge mode’ on, but not necessarily a different difficulty.

• Raid groups with a setting that scales gear to go no-higher than a particular item level (different sort of challenge mode, in a sense).

That way, raiding players can have more variety in opportunities with raiding akin to how dungeon-players have with mythic plus.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Ventorath-wyrmrest-accord

BiS isn’t real. You can get more or less any stat combo on any slot from M+. The only notable bits you might potentially care more about raid for are Trinkets and items that have special effects.

While this is somewhat true, there are a few caveats.

Bliz has a habit recently of only putting 1 of each stat type ring in each M+ season recently. Also it does depend on the spec. Something like aug which quite literally only cares about mastery is, even in a season when stat DRs are at maximum impact, looking for very specific high mastery weight items.

[Arcade-bonechewer]

@Ventorath-wyrmrest-accord

BiS isn’t real

Lmao it sure is real, both by literal definition and by maximum theoretical output.

@Ventorath-wyrmrest-accord

You can get more or less any stat combo on any slot from M+.

You sure can, but the right combination of stats from the right combination of gear results in the best possible combination for output, creating your bis loadout (which is real lol).

You can do fine with any combination of stats-- absolutely (and it’s perfectly cool if you don’t care about chasing bis). That doesn’t make BiS not a thing, and it doesn’t stop people from wanting to optimize their gear.

@Ventorath-wyrmrest-accord

The only notable bits you might potentially care more about raid for are Trinkets and items that have special effects.

Yeah I believe the term that’s used for items like these is “best in slot”.

And again, all of these came from the raids for me.

[Shadorine-moon-guard]

Mythic plus dungeons are the only reason I still play retail… just saying.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Arcade-bonechewer

You can do fine with any combination of stats-- absolutely (and it’s perfectly cool if you don’t care about chasing bis). That doesn’t make BiS not a thing, and it doesn’t stop people from wanting to optimize their gear.

Most specs have about 20 different combinations of gear that sim within variance of eachother, which one ends up on the lists / whatever is almost arbitrary. The only reason we still make BIS lists is because antiquated guild practices like loot sheets still exist and people want to know what dungeon they’re most likely to want to target if they’re missing a slot and want to run keys to upgrade it.

[Kaercha-area-52]

M+ is the premiere endgame of wow.

[Killjøy-earthen-ring]

@Sabbia-moonrunner

Clearly the only solution is to delete raiding.

Isn’t raiding the game mode with the least amount of players doing it?

Im sure the 100 guilds that clear it every season would get over it.

[Natina-khaz-modan]

So u can get a full team too raid for hours, but cant get 5 of them too simply spend a bit of time running through some ez dungeons to get myth track gear…

[Stillaverage-area-52]

@Ouchhy-malganis

this did not exist before shadowlands

Because before shadowlands, it was absolutely raid or die, pretty much. Highest item level came from raid only. They still have the rare drops and the special weapons and trinkets, because it’s still pretty much raid or die to some extent. Why do you want the game to cling to a game mode that has quite literally been dying for years now?

[Wariya-stormrage (Wariya)]

@Ouchhy-malganis

I seem to not like the xpacs where if you want to do the hardest content in raiding, you also need to do 8 mythic plus weekly to be competitive l

Lets just accept that fact that nobody is actually really competiting with world first players, for several p2w reasons.

Now with that out of the way, M+ has just brought and focused on the true feelings of the players that is the slow loot drip and the sense of accomplishment with that of the rating is what this so called "Competitive " players really want, . That how they are able to repeat the same dungeons for the entire year season after season even if they don;t like the affix or the dungeon .

This is working and even making you to do them otherwise you would have quit a long time ago.

[Kalaen-black-dragonflight (Kalaen)]

@Ouchhy-malganis

I seem to not like the xpacs where if you want to do the hardest content in raiding, you also need to do 8 mythic plus weekly to be competitive like in shadowlands and dragonflight. While also making m plus hard. Mythic plus is not even hard necessarily to just cap out what’s needed for raiding. Just another social issue to get 5 capable players online to complete it. In legion, an xpac everyone seems to like there was only 1 shot at mythic level dungeon gear in the weekly chest. Which was also not great. But to me, lets say there’s 70 pieces of available loot in the weekly from dungeons, having a 1/70, then a 1/69 and then a 1/68 chance at the piece of loot you really want for 8 times the time investment feels just as bad or worse.

Your title and post sound like you don’t even close to being relevant in “the hardest content”, save for some gold carries.

[Minnienuker-grobbulus]

@Malgorok-zuljin

Log on, do your raid in one night, don’t play the rest of the week

Good stuff

Why is that a bad thing? This gives people time to play alts and other games. Why does WoW have to be your primary hobby for the entire week?

It is crazy to me that people actually advocate for more grinding, because that is all M+ is, more grinding for a chance to pull the slot machine.

Reminds me of Mechanar in TBC, people ran that dungeon like crazy because it was the most efficient way to get gear fast, M+ is basically Mechanar on steroids.

[Sabbia-moonrunner (Sabbia)]

@Killjøy-earthen-ring

Isn’t raiding the game mode with the least amount of players doing it?

Pretty sure PvP still holds that crown lol.

The game seriously is World of Mythicpluscraft now.

[Nikolo-proudmoore]

@Minnienuker-grobbulus

@Malgorok-zuljin

Log on, do your raid in one night, don’t play the rest of the week

Good stuff

Why is that a bad thing? This gives people time to play alts and other games. Why does WoW have to be your primary hobby for the entire week?

It is crazy to me that people actually advocate for more grinding, because that is all M+ is, more grinding for a chance to pull the slot machine.

All I can say is that, at this point, if M+ was removed and raid logging became the standard way to play WoW again…I would immediately unsub.

Having a way to improve my character by grinding dungeons keeps me invested in WoW and makes it worth the sub cost.

That’s why its a bad thing. I can’t speak for everyone, but I doubt I am alone in that opinion.

[Arcade-bonechewer]

@Hpellipsis-whisperwind

Most specs have about 20 different combinations of gear that sim within variance of eachother, which one ends up on the lists / whatever is almost arbitrary

No argument here, but there’s a clear difference between having a combination of gear that sims within variance and “just wearing anything that drops from mythic”.

And there are still pieces that specifically give an outsized advantage over literally anything else.

[Furciferon-illidan]

@Minnienuker-grobbulus

Why is that a bad thing? This gives people time to play alts and other games. Why does WoW have to be your primary hobby for the entire week?

It doesn’t have to be your primary hobby, but you can still let people enjoy things.
And even then, does it matter if it is their main hobby?

OP Claiming M+ ruined the game since shadowlands is certainly a take. Not an accurate one, but a take nonetheless.

[Verneg-azralon]

Ony the people with the least possible knoweledge of the game says this. You must be being ironic, it’s not possible.

[Verneg-azralon]

This is obvious. Should be obvious for everyone. It’s obvious that almost everyone loves the m+ progression even not being perfect.

[Legionisbest-mannoroth]

@Ouchhy-malganis

you also need to do 8 mythic plus weekly to be competitive like in shadowlands and dragonflight.

Kind of funny how all the people crying about ´´grinds´´ in Legion and BFA conveniently forget this.

Especially bc of AP catchup, u could jst grind later, whereas in many versions of M+ in SL and DF, if u miss a week of 8s u could easily be ´´forever´´ behind in theory.

M+ simultaneously saved and ruined retail WoW.