I’m still hoping for a full BRD M+, at least as an April Fool’s joke. 4-hour timer, 24-boss.
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I just don’t understand why it would be good for the game to return to what dungeons were prior to M+. They were abandoned content after about 2-3 weeks of an expansion launching save for a daily that had some rewards you might have wanted to queue up for a heroic dungeon, which was completely trivial and speedrun faster than anything in M+.
Dungeons being dead content was bad for the game.
2 Likes
Memory is a funny thing. The fondness people have for Legion is like 7.2/7.3 Legion with the memory of 7.0/7.1 Legion long-forgotten eg the legendary lottery that caused people to reroll their toons until they got the right legendaries.
Anyway, I wouldn’t say M+ ruined the game. There are issues with the system (eg key depletion shouldn’t exist) but you seem to be complaining that M+ killed raiding because it’s way more rewarding than raiding. I would say that raiding ruined raiding.
The real problem with raiding (and M+ and PvP) is that Blizzard tried to make everything “hard”, partly to make a competitive game (R2WF, MDI, AWC, etc). The gear is entirely seasonal so you can just wait 3 months and none of it matters. The next season will throw greens and blues at you that are better than your +10-15 gear.
Cosmetics are forever. Gear is fleeting. Once you start to realize that none of it is worth the effort, you’re in a bind.
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Blizz hasn’t raised their subscription prices (at least for the U.S.) but their costs have certainly gone up. The cash shop is only going to carry one so far.
Repurposing old dungeons, like recoloring old items is an economical way to expand playing options and reasons to hand out loot and achievements. If it keeps even a small percentage of players continuing to pay for subscriptions then it is successful.
This will always be an issue when players can burn through years of development in a matter of weeks or even days. The alternative to repurposing would be to gate how quickly people can move through the content by making leveling more time consuming and a much slower pace of gearing with things like attunement.
Personally, I’m fine with how Blizz decided to handle things all in all.
I guarantee you that mythic raiders have been doing keys since Legion to gear up for raiding.
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only figuring that out now? lol i thought this was common knowledge since legion.
Not sure why you are replying that to me.
it was replied to op via the reply button under his op unless the forums bugged out, or just because i posted right after you, you assume it was directed to you?
You don’t need the m+ items from vault to clear raid content, you need a guild that can perform and do mechanics. There are a few gear checks, and those can be met with raid drops/crafted gear/raid vault rewards when appropriate. Usually no more than a few weeks.
If anything, this weird relationship they’re trying to build between raids/m+/pvp/professions is what sucks. Eventually they’ll probably do what they had to do for pvp gear, because pvp gear was so much easier to acquire than raid gear in TBC and after, scale it in the content it originated from.
I’d love for them to relent on the raid dropping such powerful items ad nauseam.
Solves all this. They gave us a regent bag with 3 ranks for everything. They could have given us an equipment bag…
How do I down vote a comment?
Fully agreed.
I don’t even hate M+ as a concept, and in smaller doses it’s honestly fun. I tend to care about it roughly 1 Season per expansion, and then I’m done and either refuse to touch it or do a bare minimum to get a serviceable vault item (as in, an item, not 3 choices).
It’s also good for the game in that in gives Dungeon Content a real reason to exist other than as some kind of obligatory currency grind. For awhile there Dungeons basically served as a stepping stone to Raiding and were irrelevant for anyone who actually took that step after the first 2 weeks of any given expansion.
But Blizzard introduced it to the game, let it be, and then never addressed the issues that came with it, and now the game is worse for it, both in design and in the the way players approach the game.
And now that they left it like this for so long, it’s impossible to make meaningful changes without subs dropping like flies.
The best they can do at this point is iron curtain every type of content. PvP is its own thing. Raids are their own thing. Dungeons are their own thing. World Content is the baseline. And honestly that’s not a great solution, it’s just what’s left.
Well yea anyone with 1 brain cell already knows this.
M+ needs to be removed for good.
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I’m a solo player and don’t do either M+ or raids, so this reply is purely out of curiosity. However, I have a question. Aren’t Raid and top tier M+ gear basically equivalent? Sorry if I’m simply ignorant here, but it seems odd that they’d make two parallel pillars and have one outdo the other. Is doing M+ truly required to raid, or vice versa?
exaggerations
I don’t like that you have to raid in order to get your BiS trinkets or weapons every season, or for easier tier early on.
Goes both ways bud
A better solution would be to make both provide all slots to prevent to need to do both. People will still do M+ and people will still raid, but at least they won’t be forced. I may not do either, but I’d hate to see something else removed from the game that some enjoy. That’s just dumb.
I would argue that Raid only having 1-2 pieces per patch that are worth getting is a much bigger negative toward raiding as an endgame pillar than anything else.
M+ is just better all around for literally everything other than whatever OP Trinket + Maybe a Weapon with an effect in some patches.
I’m not advocating for Raid having MORE unbalanced items, btw, that’s not the right solution. Just voicing frustration that the more long term progression oriented content has like… 2 pieces that you might care about, whereas the spammy 25 minute dungeon speedruns have everything else.
This is highly subjective, though.
Most of my bis has come from raid this entire expansion, which can feel far worse than from m+.
Bluntly, the raid is cleared in a week or two.
With crest caps, I highly doubt they are doing it with maximum ilvl.
They didn’t “need” to grind 8 m+ dungeons the whole season.
BiS isn’t real. You can get more or less any stat combo on any slot from M+. The only notable bits you might potentially care more about raid for are Trinkets and items that have special effects.