We went over this already. No you didn’t. You kept trying to pass off opinions as fact and continued to dodge the entire time when I have you multiple opportunities to substantiate your claims with facts. A you also continuously dodged any attempt to articulate the why and to avoid complete generalizations.
It’s a literal fact that most players don’t have the skill required to get CE.
Quote me saying I don’t raid due to logistics. You are now resorting to making things up. Hilarious.
This is YOUR experience, it doesn’t make it a fact about the game and tuning. You farming for crests prove my point that you needed gear to compensate for skill.
Speaking of season length, I truly feel that this season, for whatever reason, players are feeling more pressure to complete the content earlier than ever before.
This could be because we don’t have a set date when season ends (unless I’m mistaken) or the feeling of wanting to do the content but feeling pressured to “keep up” with content releases. Or maybe to beat the incoming holiday season we all know we can’t play as often during that time.
Never before do I so clearly see how so many tiers of gear / modes is now causing problems. Way back in the day, you could wait 6 months for a single item from molten core to be called an upgrade. Now we have so many levels within levels within currency within more currency…… it feels like a mess.
See this is the thing, I could go fish out all the stuff you want me to fish for you, but I won’t. It’s a trick, you waste people time, and you will say it’s because I can’t and the data doesn’t exist when the reality is:
You have replied to countless threads laying out all the factoids you need to see what’s wrong with current M+ season and you simply cannot understand the situation at all.
There’s a bug report forum full of M+ greavances.
There’s 3-4 website you can use to compare DF season 1 20+ engagement vs TWW season 1 10+ engagement. I am sure you know how to do your own research.
Mythic raiding is 20 players flat, scheduled, locked. M+ is 5 randos, whenever, you know this.
By the way logistics means managing resources, in this instance, time. If you think I make things up it is simply because you choose to be ignorant. When the person you argue with cannot comprehend basic inferences it’s more than pointless. You will get hung up on semantics and you will probably quote this reply 100x to try and gaslight me when in reality the truth is… you just dont get it.
But you have won, you’ve wasted (and will probably continue to waste) mine and everyone’s time.
This is you finally admitting that you didn’t back up anything you stated in the past and further proof that you can’t. You spent all this time arguing with me knowing full well you couldn’t actually substantiate it.
This is you trying to deflect what you did this entire time. I gave you fully thought out and gave based counters to your claims.
You made the claim that M+is full of bugs. Surely you would have been able to list them without basically saying “Google it”. Like I said, you definitely actually know what’s going on you are just regurgitating things you hear backed by confirmation bias.
Literally did not dispute this. You are dodging the actual argument.
Lmao again, more gaslighting and dodging the actual points of the argument. This is literally all you do front the start. You didn’t once try to have discourse in good faith even though I answered all of your questions directly in full detail. Don’t talk about self awareness when you can’t separate your emotions and feelings out of a debate.
+5 this season feels like a +10 - 11 from DF at most, +10 feels like a +23 - 24. Your statement about things being objectively easier does make sense if we’re going by blizzard’s supposed scaling and saying that +5 = +15. However, I think the higher you go, the less reliable adding +10 to a key to compare it to DF keys becomes, especially with tyrannical and fort at the same time along with -15 seconds for a death. It is absolutely harder imo on anything 8 and above. A +8 most certainly does not feel like a +18 and losing over a minute for a full wipe vs 25 seconds is extremely punishing and you’re only gonna feel it more the higher you push.
Yeah I agree with that, but also in the context that Blizzard tends to tune top down. Top meaning the highest level that gives the highest rewards, so +10. Anything higher than that does start to scale wildly. Mist, which is one of the easiest dungeons becomes one of the hardest because of the two bosses that phase. They just become complete time sinks if you miss the phase by a few %. People pushing nearly +40 keys is relatively new though and I think it’s okay if they curb it.
It’s largely because keys scale non-linearly. Even though the keys increase by a set %HP and DMG per key level the increases compound every time. The HP and dmg increase from a +12 to a +13 probably larger than a +2 to a +7.
Your main is Tuskalott? Just asking cause you invited us to look up your character on Raider IO. It looks like you only started getting KSM when they actually started making it rewarding, but each time it looks like you stopped after getting KSM. S3 of Dragonflight had such a bloated IO levels I doubt 2800 was actually that hard.
Anyways, I am trying to find what facts you stated about M+. I think it’s fine, maybe some small stuff is over tuned but nothing out impossible. I think a lot of people are just expecting things to be like later seasons of the expac. Same thing happened in DF, Shadowlands, and BFA. First season has a lot of growing pains, either people learning dungeons, which mobs especially need kicks, so on and so forth.
Now I don’t mean to insult or knock anyone’s skill, but where are people getting this entitlement to Mythic quality gear without facing Mythic quality challenges? I know that may sound gate-keepy, or elitist, but honestly it’s just a question.
This part right here, “group synergy,” teamwork. That is what a lot of these dungeons require at current common ilvls. Don’t see a problem with that. It’s part of that growing pains I mentioned before.
I went back to “fish” out these facts, I can’t find em either. There are a lot of just opinions here, which is fine.
I love how neither one of you addresses the fact people who do not mythic raid due to how it works and folks have a RL, use/d M+ to continue progressing in ilvl. It’s not about people not deserving high ilvl loot, it’s about people wanting to increase power over time. The truth is and always has been, a vast majority of H players do not mythic raid due to its tight contraints. So once that AOTC is done, M+ and farming final H bosses for the rare high ilvl items is all thats left.
This M+ season has been garbage. From the bugs to the absolute nonsensical ilvl loot reward progression and oh look! They just announced nerfs to 3 overtuned dungeons. And I am willing to bet they will be nerring challenger’s peril next, if not fort/tyr combo as well. The key lvl progression is not linear at all.
Ignoring the threads about this season, blocking your ears and yell everything isn’t the way. Im proven right by these nerfs and will continue to be as more nerfs come. I pug, and when I deem things worthy of my time for reward or challenge, I will give it my time. Blizz is a business, they want people playing, not gate-keeping.
I think the problem is that you get trapped in these early weeks. Doing 9’s with a group of ~610 or so players on fortified requires a lot of energy. Those same players are probably beyond capped on runed crests so the only way they can progress is 9s.
when the crest cap is high enough that they could actually farm <9 keys to get every slot to 619, +9 and +10 will not be difficult. Time gating and luck means people who didn’t split farm heroic are starved for runed crests and have to play at maximum focus to try to carry randoms in 9s which is just not sustainable. This is what I think is currently akward. If you’re lucky and your pugs time 75% of the 9s - that’s still about 6 hours of farming at a high level of focus to get 1 crafted piece, which is about the only way you’re going to upgrade your gear when you’re runed crest capped. problem is - those 6 hours assume you only have a few minutes between in each dungeon, which for most people that ilvl and rating - is basically a pipe dream.
thus you’re taking perfectly capable players and making it so they are encouraged to just log off after delves or maybe 1 weekly 10 until the crest cap increases in a few weeks.
Amen brother, These guys are in their own little world, if they think players are going to stick around without progression, WoW has always been about filling up bars.
If the vault does not offer progression, its no longer a carrot on a stick. That’s just a stick in the mud.
Doing even mythic 0s are too hard for people as with people raiding at LFR difficulty, the concept of completing normal is too high of a task.
I’m fine with lowering all gear to LFR / heroic dungeon level (and they would be equal.) Delves wouldn’t give higher ilvl beyond a tier 2 or something and it would also be equal.
Everyone will have access to gear, and all the vault slots they can fill.
Would you be happy with such a system, why or why not?
I’m fine with it. It would be less enjoyable vs current iteration but it’s something I’m willing to accept.
Its just the level squish. It should be hard since a 10 is the equivalent of mythic raiding. They just finished RWF a couple days ago, the average player is not going to be anywhere near ready for +10. And if you want to do higher level content work on your skill as a player, it really is simple as that. The players who are doing that higher content have worked their asses off to get to that skill level and most have dedicated griups they play with. I personally won’t put anything over a 9 right now.