It has nothing to do with ego, stop trying to use that strawman argument. It has to do with end game polar balancing where M+ was rewarding far more than it should have for the difficulty of the content in comparison to raid.
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So raiders got upset that people could get gear almost as good as theirs without raiding? Not to mention to get myth track you have to gamble on the vault each week while mythic raid teams build up bad luck protection as the team gets more drops every week and the vault. Their egos got hurt because people who dont spend 20+ hours a week wiping on raid bosses could get good gear? How sad. They should just get better so they dont wipe as often according to your argument. Then they could easily still get the best gear in the game.
No, raiders got upset that they were being forced to M+ in order to be competitive in raid because of how much more rewarding M+ was over raiding. Mythic Raid only rewarded higher gear from the last couple bosses. You clearly donât even understand what was happening before cause you only care about yourself.
Again, it has nothing to do with ego. The only one who keeps talking about it is you.
It only rewarded higher gear than the vault from the last couple bosses. You also got higher drops than m+ other than the vault, so after a week or 2 of doing mythic raid, its like getting extra vaults for each boss you kill. End of dungeon m+ rewards have never been on par with mythic raid drops. There isnt a way to target farm mythic raid ilvl items in m+ because the vault is random and fickle. Even in DF it felt as if you would need to mythic raid to compete for top 1% in m+ because raiders always have an ilvl advantage. This is just pushing the envelope further in that direction.
I do understand why raiders were upset. Raiders cried because there was a chance to get gear other than raid without a lockout for RWF. So they had fans group with them to split farm and gear stack m+ in the hopes of getting better gear to raid with. This isnt what normal players experience in wow and should not be what the game is tuned around.
If you have ever pugged m+, you should want the bads in the group to be able to get ilvl easily to make the groups a little better, even artificially.
I have over 1000 days played between my characters, 210 on this character, but I mainly prefer to do m+ and it doesnt feel very rewarding this season. I have been playing wow since 2004 and the dungeons and raids dont give me a lot of challenge outside having the ilvl to do them, even without addons. Looking at the rewards doesnt give me motivation to log in and the raid is nothing special. I have only played at level 80 for 20 hours and im 6/8 heroic raid and pulled my weight the whole way at 588 ilvl. I have done 1 delve and hated the gameplay. It was like they took torghast, follower dungeons, and world quests and duct taped them together. Three things i dont like to do, and said this is what you need to do for gear, forget m+.
I am not complaining about the difficulty for myself, wow is not hard for me after all of these years. I play to spend time with my friends and usually do m+, but they dont even do it this season because it is more rewarding just to run delves and raid.
Your act like guilds are farming Mythic cleara from day 1. Most get hard stuck after the first 3 and a single digit % get CE. Fact is that any serious guild forced their raiders to farm M+ because of how much easier it was to get crests, fill vault, and gear up making normal and heroic raiding obsolete. It doesnât matter if a select few items from the last boss of mythic raids dropped higher ilvl when the majority of wow players wonât get there. M+ was far too rewarding and itâs disingenuous to say otherwise.
Heroic raid isnt nearly as difficult as m+18-10 besides the last boss. There are and were pugs running it around the clock. Taking loot away from m+ because easy content becomes obselete is disengenous.
Why are you comparing +18-20 to heroic raids? Lmao. You are exemplifying the problem where people expect top tier rewards from heroic equivalent difficulty.
You said it made normal and heroic raids obselete. M+ is harder than those. M+ is the only form of content that can scale infinitely, so it is arguably the most difficult content. It can get so hard that the best mythic raiders in the world cant push to the next key level. That is above where item rewards end, but it is still true. Many more players do m+ than mythic raid, why not allow the larger player base to get the best gear. That was the idea behind increasing max rewards from +15 to +20 in dragonflight. Sweats will sweat whether m+ gives gear or not. It has been that way since there was no consumable cap when raiding in vanilla and they will find a way. Nerfing m+ loot is not going to prevent these kinds of guild-sanctioned requirements, only change them and upset the m+ player base.
It does make normal and heroic obsolete because the M+key levels that rewarded Normal and Heroic equivalent loot during DF was significantly easier and infinitely spammable while raiding has a weekly lock out.
They have a long way to go before content stops being rewarding as they do harder things. Envious.
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Itâs weird how for saying players shouldnât care about the gear others get, you sure care a lot about what gear others have.
The m+ that rewarded heroic raid gear was not easier than heroic raid. M+ is also not infinitely farmable so long as you dont have infinite time. Worthwhile m+ levels take 20 to 30 minutes each and you get a 2/5 chance for loot. Whether that loot is useful or not is another story. You may need to do 10 or more m+ to get a piece and even then it might not be useful. M+ players can spend just as much time and effort as raiders and to say that they should not get gear because they dont do it on a set schedule with 20 people is rediculous. The only way to balance m+ and raid is to separate them like pvp and pve. Raid gear should be synced down 30-50 ilvls in m+ dungeons and m+ gear should be synced down in raids. They should end at the same seasonal ilvl. Then raiders dont have to m+ to raid and m+ doesnt have to raid to m+. Vaults would not affect each other either and the catalyst can be used to get sets for m+ players. Outdoor ilvl would not be synced with either type. Problem solved. You dont have to cater to one or the other and can balance difficulty of both without hurting either group.
If they decide to even try.
So the first reaction of not being able to do the hardest content in the game is to not even play?
Players should have the opportunity to compete in their chosen activity fairly and shouldnt have to complete actitvities they dont like to remain competitive in the one they like. That is why resilience was added to pvp gear and eventually lead to the pvp gear we have now. Back in vanilla the best raid gear was also the best pvp gear for the same reason raid gear is also now the best m+ gear. The same reason pvp gear was nerfed outside of pvp in shadowlands.
Yes it was.
Yes it is.
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You level to 80 with quests that are easy and pushover dungeons that dont teach you anything. Then get to mythic + and it starts at what a 10 used to be with toxic players, yeah I imagine a lot of players that start in TWW will quit when they get to m+ or just not do it at all.
I explained why m+ is not infinitely farmable. âNuh uhâ is not an intelligent answer.
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I guess in that case I want my BiS quest gear from quests and BiS delve gear from delves.
So just to be clear, this has NOTHING to do with raiders getting the best gear or any gear rewards at all but rather the removal of the 0-10 bracket?