Mythic Plus is harder AND less rewarding, in other words simply NOT FUN

Like me, the first season is usually the worst for me, getting KSM but not KSH. It is not uncommon for me to get KSH in later seasons. But I refine my gear, strats, paths, etc through out it all, trying to adjust as thigns change and I work my way up.

Hey, there are those of us that play certain specs when they are not meta and can blow FotM rerollers out of the water with their meta specs and classes. If one really wants to succeed with their favorite spec/class, it takes practice, playing it when it is not the meta/top, etc.

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When you gatekeep content for 80% of the playerbase you don’t make people who already does CE and KSH (0.5%) happy while making the rest unhappy. You make people who sell aotc and KSM happy. They are the only winners here.

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Putting CE and KSH in the same category is one of the funniest things I’ve read in a while.

Just posting to say I agree with all the points the OP is saying. M+ feels awful right now.

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The problem is unless you have a dedicated 5 stack, you are not going to progress on pugs m+. The amount of leavers I have experienced this expansion out numbers the amount I had total last expansion. I used to be able to carry with a dedicated 3 stack, but the “bad players” you speak of keep us down. Like crabs in a bucket. We used to just steamroll carry bad players, but now that dungeons are hard -not so much. Players who refuse to learn mechanics or learn their rotations keep us casuals down.

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This boss doesn’t work the way that it used to. The stacking AoE pulse from the aboms gets too high too quickly to try stretching out the burn phase by sending additional hooks through the boss.

If instead of passively cleaving the abom down while burning the boss, you focus down the abom while cleaving the boss and then damage the boss before he jumps back up, the fight will go longer but your healer will be able to sustain the party.

I am a pugger and I’m progressing in M+.

Do you play more than 3 hours a day? have you been playing since the start of the expansion? I started a couple weeks ago and have only finished 8 dungeons. Many failures.

Weeknights I run 2-4 keys so about 3 hours or less.

Yes, but missed half of the first week of the season for health issues.

I have had many failures too, that’s part of the game. It doesn’t detract from the fact that puggers can still progress. Sure it can be easier if you have a 5-stack, but it’s not required.

It used to not be required. More so 100% needed for most consistency more than ever

It still isn’t required, as I have pointed out.

This has always been the case, but groups can also hold you back because you are only as good as the weakest player. I used to play as a trio at some point, but quickly out grew the group.

Pointed out does not mean true. “you are only as good as the weakest player”, so you agree that pugs are not consistent and will bring you down to the level of the weakest player (bad players keep us down as I said). PUGS have leavers, ignorant players, but still have the chance for good pug.

I pointed out that I have been able to progress in M+ by pugging which proves your statement to be false. What word games are you trying to play?

You are now going into full circular reasoning mode and taking what I said out of context and trying to use it in other arguments. The weakest player argument is true for pugs and for 5-stacks. Just because you have a 5-stack does not mean you will get far. There was a thread about one failing at a +5 just recently.

So 5 stacks share the “weakest player scenario” but you are not forced to play with 5 stacks much like PUGS. I am not saying it is impossible to progress m+, but as you stated you used your 3 stack to progress to higher keys and abandoned them. After you reach a higher key level you clearly get the cream of the crop players. Players who know what they are doing so to speak. I am not playing word games, I am simply telling you what you said coincides with what I said.

Try pugging from m0 no gear to m+7. It is not fun. You get ignorant players who do not want to learn the game. You will waste time trying to progress leaving you exhausted and not wanting to play. I guess you had the privilege of have a team to get you to those high keys.

Idk, you made an absolute statement saying you “cannot progress”. This just comes off as back pedaling.

You are making the assumption that my 3-stack was from early season and that I left them after. I created the 3-stack when I was already past the KSM tier players (this was back in Shadowlands) and out grew them when I was trying to go for portals and beyond. I have over 1,000 keys completed and 99% of them have been as solo pug.

I literally did that this season. Started at 605 from the pre-season gearing from delves/M0 and currently finishing up my +9s. As a pug.

Yes, I fully understand that. It took me 4 or 5 NW runs to time the +9 because people kept messing up the hook or spears. It’s part of pugging, but it’s still doable. You just need a different mindset if you are going to pug. These issues still happen with a 5-stack, because of human error.

A lot of assumptions.

I thought you were sick?

I have over 1,000 keys completed and 99% of them have been as solo pug.

Also what do keys from before this expansion how to do with anything? It is a fact that since last dragonflight to now m+ are much harder. If anything you HAVE to notice the difference between then and now in terms of PUG difficulty.

Sure I “guessed”, but how am I supposed to know you were referring to past content when we are talking about THIS expansion.

I guess us casual players are destined to struggle in pugs. I have 7 timed runs this expansion. I envy you and your “skill”. I wonder how much time this took you to get there since you started early season. I wonder if it will reinforce the “casual players can’t progresss” mindset. I just now got to 610 gear after playing for 3+ weeks.

I was in the hospital from the 19th to the evening of the 21st, yes.

I’m telling you that through my long history of pugging, that this season is no different. You can progress as a solo pugger.

No, not really. I think you are trying to compare Season to Season instead of Season 1 to Season 1. Season 1s are historically more difficult for many reasons.

There’s no agreed upon definition of “casual” so it’s best to not use it. I consider myself a casual since I don’t play with others on a schedule and only run a few keys a night.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I was sub-610 last week.

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so that 5 gearscore difference took you that long? So you agree its hard to progress as a solo.

I mean ~5 per week it seems? Depends on what you call progress. I spent the entirety of week 2 spamming SV and Ara for trinkets. There’s gear progression, skill progression, and score progression. Maybe there wasn’t much gear progression in terms of pure numbers, but I sure did get a lot of skill progression spamming SV and Ara and the massive benefits of the trinkets.

I already stated earlier that it’s generally more difficult to progress as solo, but that wasn’t the argument you made. You said you “cannot progress”, which is what we were discussing.

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Who cares what I said, I am not arguing semantics. It is clear (maybe not to you) I was exaggerating the difficulty of key progression. I was hoping you “a veteran solo key runner” would notice the difference in the difficulty of M+ dungeons (then and now) for the average “casual player” since you consider yourself casual.

personally I do not grind 3 key a day. Maybe a 3 a week if I am feeling it, because I get exhausted with leavers in M0-3.