You’re essentially calling them bad for not enjoying the game.
If it’s not condescension then you might just be socially unaware.
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I read it the opposite. They are not enjoying the game for being bad. The person is saying the M+ is “not fun” because of x, y, z that are skill based.
I became super Casual this Season. I understand Mythic+ seems went harder but I like it.
You are not chosen becoz there’s gazillion players better than you in terms of M+ score and number of successful runs.
2 hours is too long. 1 hour also too long. Running out of time at the last boss is still okay for me. If you run out of time before the last boss, it just means that your group sucks and your group has no business with that key. Try an easier key. People are leaving M+ groups becoz they know very early that the group would fail.
I agree that it’s a player skill problem. But you don’t know the issue of players at low key this late into this season. Most of the skilled players got 1700+ M rating in a week, 2000 M rating within 3 weeks. And Casual non-skilled players had 500 M Rating or less. At this late of Season, lowbie players rarely group with skilled players and their alts. Becoz of this, most of his M+ experience IS BAD… poor DPS, Dont interrupt, bad Tank, Bad Healer almost every run in M+. How did I know this? Becoz I was one of them, lowbie but I am not a noob. I just need more play time. I got 1500 M Rating on first week., Didnt play much afterwards. I just got my 2000 M Rating last week. I was unwanted on high keys on the 3rd week becoz I wasnt able to cope up with them as I lost my play time then.
WHat happened was… I managed to overgear the M+ dungeon in time. I kept doing it until I completed +6 on all dungeons at 1900 M Rating. It was 50% chance of success. I dealth with it. Most of the time, I top the DPS and surely I have the least death. But I cant carry PuG groups just by myself. Then suddenly at 1900, I got invited at +7 by Skilled players. I started getting +++7. I was ilevel 627 RoFL vs them at level 636? I didn’t die, Nobody died. Got my KSM right away that week.
To me as Super Casual, I like the current M+. It’s challenging for me to PUG it with many bad players. It’s catastrophic in failures but persisting through it made M+ super fun for me. Playing with Veteran players is okay but their run is like a script… a little bit boring. I prefer surprises like if someone makes mistake and the group especially me covering the mistake.
I am not the best player but I have some M+ runs where I am perfect which is what I need to combat mishaps from PuGing.
That’s a really hard sell for me with a line like:
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There it is! Get gud or get out! The siren call of the gatekeepers. This is exactly what the increase in difficulty this season has created.
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That’s because they seem bent on only having fun if their ilvl is the biggest number available, but they aren’t willing to put in the work to get there.
Nah, if you don’t enjoy the content and just want the rewards, you’re setting yourself up for a bad time.
Yeah, “lack of skill stuns your enjoying”
Low skill causes less enjoyment.
The difference is that you interpreted that they are bad for not enjoying the game, but without addressing the cause for the lesser enjoyment. Meaning even players who are highly skilled and highly performing would be bad if they didn’t enjoy it.
I only heal, and this has not been my experience. The unavoidable damage and even tank healing is in a pretty good place… my issue is the tuning of avoidable damage (or single target casts on players when there aren’t enough kicks to go around). The DPS ultimately have responsibility to avoid dying in 1 GCD, and starting at +12, I just can’t save them from themselves not using defensives.
Just because the metrics show the season being active doesn’t make it fun. Many of us, who have been doing keys since M+ came out are doing the bare minimum now to get our vault rewards and playing other games in downtime.
This season is just not as exciting as past seasons and it is due in part to many affix changes and especially the inclusion of Tyrannical and Fortified at 10+ and higher. I would gladly welcome back some of the old affixes over having the current ones.
Not to mention, the new dungeons are probably some of the worst new inclusions to the dungeon system. The LOS issues on the Dawnbreaker ship make me go crazy. 
I’m also sick of being in spidey-land in the dungeons and the raid. It’s tiresome.
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As a Druid tank, it’s the loss of control I had after the DF rework on my survival. I went from being able to self-sustain nearly indefinitely in a +26 to watching my HP bar wilt away in a key as low as +10 if the healer dies/loses focus/etc. or of a dps bites it and i get off schedule with my cooldowns because the pack took too long.
The comical number of magic tank busters is a close second. Both of these issues are issues they created to make healers more important, but like many have said, they didn’t deliver on their stated design goals. They just made things feel worse.
The next thing is not being able to finish my character without mythic raiding. It’s a small thing, largely symbolic, but 13 item levels on a trinket or a gish weapon, while not limiting or game breaking in any way, feels like (and I can’t believe I’m about to say this) a slap in the face. Just like the 3 item level penalty for crafted gear.
Lastly, the time investment this season, per character, had been pretty harsh. I assumed with the advent of war bound gear and war banks that the time-per-additional character investment would go down, but its way worse. Coupled with the lower time-rate from more difficult dungeon, and alts can really drag on in the gearing process.
Bonus pain point, the increase in difficulty per key level obviously doesn’t affect anyone who was already running much higher keys, BUT we leaned on that lower bracket to get weeklies done, and the lower success rate makes even weekly vault keys more of a hassle, as it raises the anxiety level for players in that bracket and that sours runs in general.
I also had a new baby in October, so I’ve been playing a lot less, and I’ve been spending more time on the forums.
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I hate players perception that they need M+8 right away without doing +7s and +6s first. People push it just to GET WRECKED.
I know M+8 gives Gilded Harbinger Crests. FYI, less skilled players should focus more on amassing Runed Harbinger Crests first. I know before, it was 90 Runed Crests for 15 Gilded Crests. But now, it’s 45 Runed Crests for 15 Gilded Crests. It’s easier to get Gilded Crests by amassing Runed Crests by repeatedly doing an M+4 than kill yourself getting wrecked at M+8. Just farm M+4 over and over then overgear a +6. Getting +6 on all dungeons would get you 1900 M Rating. Once you are at 1900 M Rating, you would get better chance to be invited for +7 that drops HERO gear. Then overgear a +7 by amassing the same Runed crests to upgrade your HERO gear to 626.
Yes, that’s the implication.
Then they elevate themselves by offering to serve as a source of improvement.
It’s akin to an instance in Hardcore Classic where a relatively new player got the healer in his group killed and a more veteran player entered the call telling him how he messed up and offering to coach him.
An example of a person, earnest or otherwise, either blind to the social dynamic there or crafting it intentionally. In this case, also dismissive of one’s entire argument on the grounds that the true reason they don’t enjoy the thing in question is merely that they’re bad, or “lack skill” to put it in a more amiable light.
It’s not impossible that he could be earnest, of course, but it’s really, really easy to see how it can be taken or intended negatively.
This is a bad thing for a game. No tank should be able to self-sustain nearly indefinitely in keys that high.
This means you are not using your defensives effectively. The nerf to tanks was not to this point in a +10.
Sure I can admit that they went a bit overboard with the trash tank busters.
I mean from what you said you are not having fun because it’s too hard.
Those keys do exist though. You are trying to take that mentality into an area where it shouldn’t that’s the problem.
That’s not what I said at all.
if their definition of fun is “get the best rewards no matter what i choose to do or not do” then they chose their preferred game poorly.
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I feel that the philosophy of making loot “rare” is holding them back.
A big issue is the way vault rewards pushing a singular key above your skill level till 10.
I think a healthier approach would be to increase overall drops make it 1 drop per player in mythic plus. Then allow higher difficulties to drop mythic track gear.
The current gear breaks feel pointless in a world of split runs and having emblem upgrades be the nerf over time mechanic.
You said you’re not having fun because you are capping out at a lower level of key than in S3. So that sure sounds like not having fun because of difficulty going up.
That’s also not what I said lol.