And now you see why the M+ community is fanatical, and raiding is where it’s at.
I’d say organizing 20 players for mythic raiding has to be harder than organizing 5 for highend M+ honestly.
Does anybody make games where you just get everything at the start and never need to improve your gameplay?
I can’t think of one. There’s probably something out there, though.
I think if people who play m+ discovered idle games, they might just stay there.
Number go up, endlessly.
(But even idle games have strategy.)
There’s a lot more people doing +10s and even +12s than mythic ansurek. The equivalent is closer to like +14-15. Mythic raiding is harder until you reach obscenely high key levels, but it’s only the same people who mythic raid doing those.
Star Wars: the Old Republic. You use your first character to gather everything, and then when you make an alt, you can literally socket high end items into naked gear, and even use a purchasable item (for in game currency) to boost that character to endgame content. You can be running Flashpoints (Dungeons) and Operations (Raids) within 20 minutes of making the character without spending any money IRL.
But transferrable gear is a different concept (which I’m in favor of.)
Let me make any class with equal ilvl to my main (or slightly less.)
I agree with you that when it devolve to that kind of speech it break my heart, I am just happing to see how everyone is feeling in this conversation and I hope it can stay civil
But the post you replied to isn’t live and let live. It’s people asking for more loot because they “need” to have it.
did I miss something ?
Not a fan.
Just someone telling you that your idea is terrible.
Yea, Orelias wants to be able to run any content, for any reward he wants.
It’s a bit of a tough one to gauge.
As someone going pretty hard this season on both:
M+:
- Crests aren’t hard.
- For some reason people seem to be allergic to completing 10s even when titled as such.
- As a result Mythic track is likely gonna be a matter of RNG if pure M+. I’m ok with this
- I don’t main dps anymore but probably harder for em. Applying/rejection/failed keys.
Raid:
- Hard during progression but easy on farm.
- Makes the initial gearing pretty dam fast and ‘new characters’ tend to be fed pretty hard.
- At the time of this writing most prog groups I’m a part of (depraved/brainrot) can comfortably do 4/8 no issues. That is essentially 2 heroic vault slots I can just know I’ll have.
- easier for DPS, more favourable ratio.
1 Like
You do realize that heroic isn’t the max raiding right?
The problem you have is you think your philosophy towards rewards and how you elicit enjoyment from the game is the only valid one, and that’s not true.
Sure, I play plenty of games that don’t give rewards on winning. Many games do - and I’m sure you play some of those outside of WoW as well. The problem players tend to have is thinking loot has more intrinsic value than it actually does.
My enjoyment of games tends to come from completing the content. I value the expression of player skill over something like “who has better numbers baked into their character.” Loot has always been more of a tool than just a reward. If I’m actually participating in PVE for the season, I care more about checking off my achievement list than I do getting “exclusive gear”.
I honestly could not care less about whether or not people have access to the same gear as I do because regardless of whether one part of the community has the same gear as I do, the fact of the matter is that the raiding community is pretty big, and I’m sure as hell not the only paladin, hunter, or priest playing. I’ve BEEN seeing people wearing the same crap as I have been for ages.
Why would I think loot is anything exclusive or special if plenty of other raiders run the same paladin uniform I do?
I won’t say that placing value in your pixels is inherently wrong or incorrect, but people get way too defensive over some perceived sleight of their ‘rewards’ - and it’s kind of embarrassing to see. Care less about other people’s progression and how they have fun with the game and you’ll have a better time.
WoW has not and never has catered to a single game philosophy. If anything, casual play and accessibility to an endgame has almost always been its core, and part of that is how acquiring and keeping loot is far easier in this game than others. If you’re so concerned about the exclusivity of your pixels, why don’t you find another game that caters to that philosophy? I hear Fortnite is all about that - maybe you should give that a look.
Did I say it was?
Yea, people should find a game that caters to what the way they want to play. Instead of trying to change another game into that one.
Which ones are those? Just having the win is a reward in itself.
WOW has always been about harder content → better gear rewards and has been that way for two decades.
WOW’s doing a fine job.
1 Like
You’re talking about myth track in keys the. Talk about heroic raiding. Makes zero sense.
Dude this is the content I’m doing??
I’m lost as to what you’re on about. Take your pills or something
1 Like
Yes. If I put the time into developing skill in playing my class, I think I should be able to run any content I choose as long as my skill meets the requirements. Having multiple avenues to acquire gear helps in the process of being able to do that, and it’s been healthy for game’s engagement whether or not ‘how bad’ you think the reward structure is. 
Well, at least you admit you’re defensive over your pixels. That’s cool, dude. 