Mythic+ Needs Reworked

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Makjaw-hyjal

Something needs to change to improve the experience for everyone involved

The key holders ability to pick like minded folks. You have the power of who to choose and who to deny.

Do a little PR beforehand to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Join a guild
Join a community
Make friends with the folks you pug with that did a good job so you can have a consistent party

These are all issues that are created and inversely, solved by the player.

[Akston-area-52]

@Makjaw-hyjal

Something needs to change to improve the experience for everyone involved.

Something was done

You are choosing to ignore it

[Ankoh-dalaran]

Unfortunately blizzard can’t solve human issues. There’s not much they can do about people abandoning keys, I do agree that punishments need to be more severe perhaps m+ key bans that prevent you from running keys for X time or rewards decreased or something however it’s still not a problem with the system as it is with humans. But, the system itself is fine. I enjoy it as it stands. Sometimes yeah it sucks I agreed,.especially as a DPS but again it’s not the systems fault it’s the fact that nobody wants to play tanks or healers and only wants to DPS which is a larger more pressing issue that Blizz should try and fix but idek how they would.

[Valshaw-stormrage (Valshaw)]

@Makjaw-hyjal

The lack of control over my key, coupled with the uncertainty of whether someone will leave due to personal reasons, creates a toxic and unfun environment

1. Find a guild to run with
2. Make friends to run with
3. Find a community to run with

Never PUG if you can help it.

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

@Uncleruckus-darkspear

Everything outside of most mythic raid bosses is welfare loot.

Eh I’m not sure I buy this. Many seasons feature mythic raid bosses that are easier than whatever the minimum key to unlock myth track gear from vault is. And since M+ can only get that level of gear from vault, raiders who can down at least 2 mythic raid bosses will have more shots at myth track gear than M+ players.

[Twinblood-bleeding-hollow]

Someone who has a higher pay grade then me needs to suggest to Blizz under 10s don’t deplete, or something.

[Snozay-area-52]

Only if you get zero rewards for an untimed key.

It’s either or. You don’t get both.

[Uncleruckus-darkspear]

@Dwelknarr-lothar

Eh I’m not sure I buy this

I’m not sure I buy it either, but when people start these idiotic threads I get quite annoyed and argumentative.

[Sinelius-area-52]

No one will stay then thought, why bother staying when no loot at the end? Vault aint worth a 1 hour run.

[Akston-area-52]

K.

Keys deplete then.

Keys are already extremely rewarding for failing.

[Kiyoko-ravenholdt]

Gotta pick one. People want to immediately retry like a raid boss and also get loot like a key w/ depletion. Can’t have both.

[Tailagan-area-52]

If I had my way, I’d remove M+ from the game entirely. It has more downsides than upsides. This season, I got exactly zero enjoyment from playing M+. I got the portals in the first couple of weeks and practically stopped running keys after that.

M+ is:

1. 70% chance the group will be toxic if you fail. And if the failure is your fault, someone will whisper nasty things to you after the run.
2. -15 seconds per death. Sometimes I’d miss the timer by literally one second and waste 30+ minutes because someone ignored a mechanic or failed to handle it. Sometimes that was me. I believe players should be granted portals at the start of the season if they manage to clear a dungeon at +10 difficulty in undergeared conditions.
3. You can’t replace players in M+. If someone leaves, that’s the end of the run.
4. M+ has a level of toxicity that PvP has never reached and probably never will. M+ negatively affects Azeroth’s atmosphere and how players perceive it. M+ isn’t a group of adventurers delving into a dungeon, joining forces to overcome the challenges they face. M+ is a place where players hate each other, and the only thing stopping them from driving casual players to tears is Blizzard’s moderation policy.
5. M+ negatively impacts raiding. If you don’t play M+, it’s harder to get into a raid. You can’t just raid once a week like in the old days. If you skip M+, you’ll fall so far behind that none of your heroic raid applications will be accepted. This season, I’ve done very little M+, and I literally can’t get into mythic groups for the first four bosses.

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

@Uncleruckus-darkspear

I’m not sure I buy it either, but when people start these idiotic threads I get quite annoyed and argumentative.

I mean to be fair, I think on average M+ players have it better from an effort versus reward perspective when it comes to myth track gear in most seasons. Certainly when we consider that raiders have to kill the tougher bosses before they will ever see certain item slots via the raid path, M+ has an advantage. I just don’t think it’s “most” mythic raid bosses that are clearly easier. I mean there’s an argument to be made that half the raid this season are easier or similar than what it takes to get through +10s.

@Tailagan-area-52

70% chance the group will be toxic if you fail. And if the failure is your fault, someone will whisper nasty things to you after the run.

I have run nearly 2,000 PUG keys going back to BFA and I can count on two hands the number of times the run was toxic. Even most of the clown fiesta runs people were cordial when calling it a day.
There is no chance I will believe that 70% of your M+ groups are toxic unless you are the catalyst for that toxicity.

@Tailagan-area-52

You can’t replace players in M+. If someone leaves, that’s the end of the run.

Practically speaking, you can’t replace players in mythic raid after the first boss due to the lockout, either. And unlike a key, that’s an entire week’s worth of work potentially down the drain compared with an hour for a key.

@Tailagan-area-52

M+ is a place where players hate each other, and the only thing stopping them from driving casual players to tears is Blizzard’s moderation policy.

Absolute hogwash, again, unless you are the toxic one.

@Tailagan-area-52

M+ negatively impacts raiding. If you don’t play M+, it’s harder to get into a raid. You can’t just raid once a week like in the old days. If you skip M+, you’ll fall so far behind that none of your heroic raid applications will be accepted. This season, I’ve done very little M+, and I literally can’t get into mythic groups for the first four bosses.

Even if we assume 100% of mythic raiders don’t want to M+, how many people do you think that affects, compared to the number of players who benefit from having a mode that can be PUGed with as little as a 30 minute commitment?

---

You’re welcome to dislike M+. But your description of toxicity in the mode are so counter to my own experiences across a large sample that they simply aren’t believable. And you aren’t even willing to give credit for how the existence of a mode that can rival raid difficulty but requires nowhere near the time commitment just to attempt is a massive win for a lot of players, far more than who mythic raid.

The reason you feel compelled to M+ are other raiders, not those of us who enjoy M+. If you aren’t willing to put in the work those raiders expect of you, the perhaps you need to reassess what are realistic goals. Bringing the game back to raid or die will do far more damage to the game than M+ ever could.

[Raldor-black-dragonflight]

Completely removing the toxic timer in favor of the delve death counter and making a change regarding key depletions will greatly improve the overall experience for casual players.

[Kiyoko-ravenholdt]

Nothing in there is ‘toxic’ except the notion that difficulty needs to be entirely removed to appeal to players who don’t play the content.

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

Can you even explain what makes a dungeon timer toxic without the oft cited misconception that a desire to move quickly through content didn’t exist amongst the player base before Legion?

[Akston-area-52]

@Raldor-black-dragonflight

Completely removing the toxic timer in favor of the delve death counter and making a change regarding key depletions will greatly improve the overall experience for casual players.

Why is the implication that casual players are both bad at the game and not social?

Why do many of these “pro casual” posts indirectly insult so many people

[Zaxxilzikk-area-52]

Coming from the guy who insisted all cultures be deleted…

Pretty hypocritical of you.

[Akston-area-52]

@Zaxxilzikk-area-52

Coming from the guy who insisted all cultures be deleted…

Pretty hypocritical of you.

lol what

@Akston-area-52

I think all culture should be banned.

This was a joke.

Also

@Zaxxilzikk-area-52

If I get banned for saying I support dungeons/raids being more accessible similar to the treatment PVP is getting, then it proves the OP’s point.

You didnt get banned.

[Broly-burning-blade]

M+ isn’t meant to be pugged.

That could explain your wait times. 99% of players play DPS. Waits are unavoidable currently.

Find friends or regulars or guildies to play with.