Mythic+ made me quit

Community General Discussion
41

You are both right and wrong
For an accurate depiction its effectively useless, but it is useful for overall gauging what people think - this wasn’t a poll dictating anything being added to the game, it literally just gauges player’s interest

Its kinda like the Wikipedia effect; its an unreliable source that isn’t an accurate source, but for laymen use and in 99.99% of cases you can count on it to be correct enough where it is useable
Of course a forum poll like this is slightly differently but when I looked up some estimates of how many people play WoW at this point and I used these numbers to get some rough calculations, the numbers people are reporting of things like “How many get KSM” these numbers seem to fit VERY closely to those figures

So… not a reliable source, but correct enough to matter

Regarding what you mentioned about M+ though you are right, and folks are always going to argue that - seen that happen enough on these forums so thank you for providing a good reference point to refer to here in this thread

But I wanted to focus on the part about a “M+ lockout” and, I don’t think that’s a good idea simply because its unnecessary; as far as I can tell, the average is that folks do 4 M+ a week rather than the full 8, and you only ever hunt after specific pieces if you are min-maxxing and at that point you are making an unnecessary change for a portion of players to which this would matter but only negatively affect everyone

Its one of those elements of design where “Sure we can add it and it would be a benefit but… a benefit to who?”; as it largely would just punish high-end min-maxxers and provide, effectively, no benefit and very rarely a downside to non-min-maxxers

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42

Raiding is horrible archaic outdated content.
Stay in classic.
M+ is what been keeping retail wow floating for years.
this season has been likely the worst season in history, what happened? the playerbase bailed and the wow token nearly doubled in price.

M+ is the future and what most of the playerbase wants.
we just want it to be good.

43

M+ is fine. It’s undeniably a good thing for the game.

But it doesn’t have to exist in a state that invalidates so much other content due to simply being the superior way to gain power.

Changes can be made to fix this without nerfing M+ (although nerfing certain aspects of M+ would also make sense – but I know people won’t bite for that).

44

Do you see any way to have commensurate challenge in a solo player mode? and are you saying that cosmetic reward is not enough of a differentiator?

45

They need to remove weekly lockout from raids.
thats it.
We’re not in 2004 anymore and timegating player power is stupid.
Heroic raiding is extremely easy and rewards BIS gear that can be upgraded to 440.

46

I don’t think players (in general) and forum users are the same.

Totally agree with your comments on M+ lockout… who does that really serve? Seems like mythic raiders who already can get better gear off the last two bosses than any other form of content, but feel obligated to do M+ and Raid (when they probably would love to skip M+) or face being benched for being behind on gear or low on DPS.

I would love Blizz to provide some separation (e.g., a M+ lockout) so that raiders don’t feel compelled to do M+ and Raid is not the only source of a trinket that does 6% of your overall damage (looking at Beacon to the Beyond and no equivalent from M+).

47

I wish people would stop talking about ‘invalidating content’ because that’s not the problem and never has been.

The problem is that ever since Nighthold, Blizzard has tuned the raids on the assumption that everybody has spammed M+ to gear up, first.

Which means if you DON’T spam M+, the raid is massively overtuned.

The problem is not that raiders ‘feel bad’ because M+ players are getting better gear, the problem is that you have to do M+ if you want to do higher content like Mythic raids.

Which turns WoW into a 2nd job.

Most people I’ve played with for years quit in BfA, because that was the apex of WoW being a 2nd job, thanks to the triple-combo of mandatory M+, mandatory AP farming, and mandatory essence farming.

1 Like
48

Bruh, heroic raids have always been free, what are you onto?

49

You don’t need to play god comp to do well in M+. Just strive for your own goals instead of worrying about what’s best. I’m playing the literal worst spec in M+ and still having a blast.

50

Sure, but every time they’ve tried it, the “solo player” community has thrown a fit about “this is too hard” and “this is only for the top 1%”.

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51

I’m not talking about Heroic raids, Heroic raids are just a re-name of the dumbed-down difficulty introduced in wrath as “Normal”.

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52

See: my entire response

Sorry but nothing about what you said here is in any way shape or form a criticism of M+ but rather just an attempt at praising month long progression when… in reality, folks don’t want to do that anymore

And every game, WoW included, have shown that this is not something desireable by virtually anyone

This is categorically false - providing additional gearing revenues simply expand access to gear; raids aren’t designed to be mindlessly overgeared anymore, one can do it but if you are able to do it we are talking about things like someone bringing Mythic ilvl gear to roflstomp a normal raid, as even in Heroic the mechanics are still not ignoreable just because of gear

The only difference is the speed of which you take to complete these mechanics and those mechanics are still entirely dependant on learning them; we have more complex bosses now than we had prior to M+, because more bosses can now have breakpoints whereas before they simply couldn’t have them or else you couldn’t kill them at all

Yes, this is my point
If you choose to limit your available power, your progression is slower - but it is still progression

If you choose to walk then you walk, if you choose to run you run
Gearing is the same way - maybe you like walking but folks generally speaking in WoW likes to try to push and speed things up, not slow it down

This is the thing that made me say that you want special treatment

You dislike raiding because its not the sole place for gear progression for PvE anymore, so you are requesting that PvE is split into different types of PvE because you don’t want want to participate in PvE the same way the majority of players in the game wants to

That is asking for special treatment, and don’t take this me as saying you in particular but this is a common thing folks ask for without thinking about it; if you want special treatment then argue for it but be aware you are arguing for it, if you don’t want special treatment though then you have to agree that one player who does more PvE content should have (at least the options for) more gear than someone who does less PvE content

So are you arguing for special treatment, or can you agree that more PvE-content should equate to more PvE-gear?

53

Ye, heroic gives gear tho.
the problem is that for some dumb reason raids still have a weekly lockout.
They shouldn’t.

timmy wants to grind and gear up fast?
let timmy do it.

54

They’d also need to double the drop rate to bring it on par with dungeons on a per-person basis (dungeons give 2 drops per 5 people, raids only give 1 drop per 5 people).

But yes, removing weekly lockouts from raids AND doubling the drop rate would help a lot.

We’ve talked about this in lots of threads.

Blizzard won’t do either, though. Ion’s done nothing but crap on raiding since he took over.

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55

Hell yeah, im all in for making gearing faster.
Like i said above, we’re old and we all have a life outside of wow, they’re still timegating it like its 2004.

56

I would tend to agree, but I would still say that the number of users who have an incentive to troll polls like these would be diminished to such a degree where the results would at least be good indications as to what folks are interested in

Does this equate to active players? We don’t know and will never know
But as I said, with the numbers I estimated I got relatively close to the numbers that folks have been reporting in terms of the guesstimated playerbase - still only estimates but its enough to make me believe the poll is correct enough to be relevant

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57

The result is the same, either they choose not to or they cant, its lost revenue… hence why I am encouraging blizzard to address WHY players (or rather just me) are choosing not to.

This has always been the way (except for M+ which allows infinite gear acquisition).

I am spit balling a few ideas but I don’t think I ever said upgrades should be removed from raiding. I am advocating for rewards to be cosmetic or for power progression to be on par with outdoor players when outdoors (but more powerful in raids for raiders)… its when you have overlap that problems arise.

58

I have seen that, for me this stems from the content taking into account mythic gear ilvls.

I point to the mage tower, horiffic visions (5 mask) and Torghast… all of them were solo player BUT balanced and paced around the existence of mythic gear.

I did heroic raids in wrath, I think heroic raiding (some bosses) are much harder today… I think I have only done 2-3 tiers of mythic raiding in my wow time (the game burns me out ALOT - ultimately that is what I don’t like, it takes too much of a time investment for a functional human being).

59

They have to, because players are much better than they were 15 years ago.

(At least, the players who have tried to improve are better.)

I’m a MUCH better player than I was 15 years ago. Aren’t you?

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60

Raiding is harder than mythic+

My friend always gets KSM at the beginning of a season but doesn’t get ahead of the curve until the very end of the season where tons of people are overgeared and can carry the other half.