So, stop asking for changes for a game that you don’t plan to play.
My last reply literally meant “I should respect other players enjoyment of this specific game mode and look to suggest at Blizzard adding more game-mode that suits my play style better”.
Take a break.
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Well, I think that’s where my thinking was going. WoW used to be head and shoulders above everyone else in popularity. Now they aren’t. There are a lot of reasons for that (age being a big one). One is that there needs to be a draw to play WoW vs a single-player game with better gameplay. Socialization was it, I think. With that largely gone, in part due to gogogogo, the epitome of which is a timer, I think a lot of us quit WoW. I probably will again when I finish the expansions I missed, unless there’s some sort of untimed mode (can’t raid due to scheduling). Obviously, the folks who wanted that ethos stayed and so make the loudest noise on forums.
I don’t want to get rid of timers that you love, actually. I just want another path. Rather than completely new dungeons, retooling exisiting ones into a nightmare, untimed version would be less work for Blizzard. I’m not entirely sure why people reject this.
Only FFXIV has parity and that caters to a different userbase.
I don’t want to get rid of timers that you love, actually. I just want another path. Rather than completely new dungeons, retooling exisiting ones into a nightmare, untimed version would be less work for Blizzard. I’m not entirely sure why people reject this.
Because it cannot exist alongside each other.
Same rewards, no timer, way harder difficulty means no one does the untimed version. Or if it’s same difficulty, then everyone does it.
May I ask what you feel is an acceptable pace that straddles between gogogo and too slow for you?
Eg is 39 minutes for a dungeon too long or too quick?
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You do have a point,if the two exist the timer one wouldn’t be used even if it is harder.
No one’s going to run a +25 untimed key for +20 rewards, when they can simply run a +20 key,
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That is if they don’t have a timer aspect in it they will,the path of least resistance is always on peoples mind.
You think doing an untimed 25 is the path of least resistance? No shot.
Especially, when you can do a +20 untimed (with a timer.) To get something similar.
This is wow,people do crazy stuff all the time,with or without it’s not surprising and a little ,unusual? 
I realize “no one” is hyperbole, but you’d have to prove there’s no interest in untimed but difficult. That’s literally what we’re asking for here, so clearly there are some of us who aren’t into timers and would do this instead.
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Just because there’s like a hundred people that cared for seasons of mastery, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to develop.
It’s not about the time. That’s kind of the point about rejecting gogogo. I can’t give you a sweet spot of dungeon times, because there is no sweet spot. A sweet spot means one is still operating under a framework that says that time is what makes or breaks having fun.
If I’m in a party having a ton of fun, I don’t mind spending all night in a dungeon…and failing. At the same time, a smooth run with no mistakes could be 15 minutes and be fun, too. It’s not about the time, but the experience. A timer just forces everyone to make it about the time.
Clearly, with real life existing, the developers’ goal can’t be all night long. If they did want a long dungeon, there’d have to be a way to either do it in pieces, save progress.
Think about other games in life without timers, everything from a tennis match to card games to Skyrim. I’m not saying those games are like WoW, just that you wouldn’t even imagine having a timer with those. That’s my mentality with WoW that exists in the beginning. The idea of putting a timer on it just totally changes the meaning of the game. Great for some, not great for others.
Then surely, people wouldn’t be complaining about tanks going too fast in leveling dungeons or heroics. I’ve spent over an hour in ruby life pools before doing a no leaver 20.
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I see your point,both timing and non would be the same if the experience is gratifying.
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Just because some folks love timers, that doesn’t mean that’s the only way to make your game…especially considering how low subscriptions and completion of M+ is currently.
And it isn’t. Dawn of the infinite does not have a timer.
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These are good points. For my take, we’ve always lived with time. It permeates this game since the beginning. Specifically how much damage are we doing over time/per second.
I think this is where I scratch my head because inevitably the game is built also on math/numbers. If you take a set dungeon (eg it’s not a randomly generated one) and add the aggregate Hp for the mobs and the collective outgoing damage from the players, throw in a bit of transit time between the mobs and some boss RP you will arrive at an objective time with which to clear it.
Obviously this deconstruction makes the dungeon experience sterile and cold for some, which I think is your issue. That the dungeon is relegated to a numbers game.
To me, it’s like chess. What’s the smallest number of moves I can make to win the game? Obviously the opponent in that game is way more reactive/intelligent than the programmed mobs in a dungeon.
I’ll end by saying, I sincerely think you would objectively crush many mythic plus dungeons without ever thinking about the timer. It isn’t until higher levels with regards to skill, gear, group composition that the timer becomes more noticeable.
My friends and I have a ball inside them, we can still carry on some discussions when we’re playing, and the planning phase is before we start the dungeon.
Well, this post got much more verbose than I’d like. Thank you for the discussion, too.
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The timer has to exist, period. It would be like removing the enrage timers from raid bosses, it just makes no sense. And as has been stated many times before, we already have mythic+ without a timer, it’s called completion.
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To some it is all science in play but to others it is the excitement of completing a challenge ,both team wise and personal. but like everything based on world experience people view things differently. Can there really be a happy medium?
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