Seen other shamans do this and it makes me rage. Like please take the KNOCK UP talentā¦ hehe
There will always be a meta. Mythic + is fine as it is and you can always ignore the timer.
Bellular needs clicks.
Edit: misspelling
Non sequitur premise. The META will be the META with or without a timer. Because, itās the Most Effective Tactic Available.
The timer is the challenge. You remove the timer and it wont magically be free loot from the same dungeon that you can now do at your leisure. To maintain a relative balance with raiding it would need to get re-balanced to the point where if you canāt time it, you wont be able to complete it.
So instead of missing on time and still getting some loot and credit after 40 minutes, youāll hard fail and get nothing after a couple hours.
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The timer bred a level of toxicity in the form of āit has to be done NOWā that doesnt translate well to new players learning or casual players running the 5 heroics for that quest. The problem is the timer has been a thing for so long that its now too late to get rid of it. If it were to be removed, it shouldve happened in BFA. The timer adds a fake difficulty just for the sake of making it harder and doesnt add anything except pressure.
At least remove key depletionā¦ its not too late.
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Itād be terrible. 
Meta would be just taking two hours per key, so no thank you.
I been thinking about this. The timer does add some toxicity to the game, the stricter the timer the more irritated people get. However, it does prevent people from taking to long in a key. No one wants to run a key that would otherwise take 25mins and still be doing it an hour later.
Even super mario bros had a timer per level. Though it was basically symbolic and almost never not timed.
Perhaps their can be a comprimise. For example Neltharius has something like 35min timer at level 17 IIRC. Lets say to Advance the key you need to make it in 35mins. But still get full aspect crest and the key does not get downgraded or changed should you not make the timer. The biggest issue with not timing a key is most the lesser crest, no one wants 5 for loosing when they need 12. Also no one wants their key bricked.
But there shouldnt be a penalty for someone else making mistakes when a player goes out of their way to be friendly and pug the key. Blizzard should really look at this. Bricking keys causes a lot of toxicty and its Blizzs fault for putting this design element into the game.
Many are worried about waiting for heroism as a reason why timers must stay. What about removing heroism from the game? Or removing it from timerless M+ (M-?)
Iād really enjoy more difficult dungeons without worrying about a timer. Heroics are too easy by far, but I just donāt like speed runs. I know many do, so not saying there shouldnāt be a timer version, too. I like being able to relax a little in between fights. Iād be happy with gear that is lesser for doing without a timer.
And thereās also the fewest subscribers everā¦
I think itās a good idea. Keep timed keys on a leaderboard per server with titles and rankings and let people do M+ without the timer without those rewards.
People have been running untimed dungeons as fast as possible as long as the games been online. No reason to expect theyād do any different in an untimed m+.
Naw, itās way different now than in the beginning. 9 times out of 10, no one says a single word in them now. It didnāt used to be that way. I miss the social aspect of it. Now itās just feels like Iām playing a solo game with NPCs.
No reason to expect that people would be more social without timers in m+ when they arenāt in normal, heroic, or M0 now.
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So giving people what they ask for = less subscribers?
And you are asking for no timer?
Well the only thing I can think here, based on your reasoning is Blizzard should ignore you.
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No, Iām questioning whether what you are saying (dungeons with no CC/strategy/etc.) is really what most people wanted, or if that is just a selection bias on forums. But you are right, declining subscriptions arenāt really evidence that they didnāt want that, as there are too many reasons that play into subscription losses.
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Yeah, I hear you and agree. I am thinking that largely comes from how easy normal and heroic are. Iām making an assumption that as difficulty increases, the need to talk to each other, at least a little increases. Am I wrong about that? (Genuine question.)
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I think if you ditch the timer the whole thing becomes boring. Itās very much a sprint.
Now should they offer parallel dungeon modes modeled after Mythic Dawn of the Infinites? Yes.
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So you accept that there were a myriad of reasons why.
You ignore that every single other major MMO is in the same boat population number wise.
But you want to stick to your guns. That this thing you donāt like is the reason why.
You cant point your finger at m+ with any more certainty than I can dismiss it. So if anything, weād be at a stalemate.
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Sorry, I didnāt expect a reply on a Sunday so quickly. Yes, I agree with you about my argumentās shortcomings, and I had edited my last post to reflect that. Agree with you here.
Getting rid of the timer defeats the purpose of M+
Itās supposed to be challenging because of the timer
As mostly a M+ runner myself id probably stop playing yhe game all together as would a lot of other players who enjoy thqy challenge. Just a hunch that they would also leave not that i know that for sure lol
Getting rid of the timer in m+ā¦ guess I go back to Diablo 3? Really havenāt played D4 much (no timer in nightmare dungeons.)
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