OP and first two replies are from blatant forum alts.
Kinda sus.
it’s like talking to a brick wall. the problem starts at the bottom and goes to the top. the reason things like gear score and raiderio was used to gatekeep newbz hasn’t changed in 10 years. if you would stop yeeting gear at people who aren’t earning it then you wouldn’t have to try so hard to keep them out of your groups. this isn’t 200iq stuff, my dude.
1 Like
you’re bringing up social issues AGAIN dude. people want the best group FOR THEIR CONTENT. why is someone inviting a 240 ilvl dps over a 290 that’s in queue? like what are you talking about this has nothing to do with systems in place, people will always find ways to check people’s experience before they invite, whether it’s gear or achievements.
dude acts like in MC they didn’t have ways to check if someone cleared the content, lmao.
2 Likes
I’d probably like it if I had an active guild.
But I also worry dungeons have been designed around it, making them less exploratory and also limiting the new dungeons we get.
Since MoP when we got challenge modes, we haven’t gotten new dungeons within an expansion outside of he Mega Ones IIRC.
Also I think the depletion of keys and the punishment for failure being so hard kinda… encourages players to be toxic and actively discourages them from letting newer or learning players into groups. But that’s a WoW problem as a whole that might be hard to fix.
Idk hopefully life is such in the coming year that I can FINALLY do them with a guild and friends because I’ve wanted to but I’m not into the idea of pugging at all.
2 Likes
if other stuff below the top end wasn’t literally useless cuz of “muh alts” what do you think happens? people at all levels are more invested because they can do stuff at their own skill level. they don’t think “well my ilevel is over 9000000000!!! so i should be able to do this thing” and then fail and come to the forums to cry about M+ and how the big mean elitists are keeping them from their groups for no reason. you know the reason. and so do i. but the free gear that exists entirely for yalls alts causes most of the bad feelings that creates the anti M+ drama. instead of understanding that other people exist too yall just pretend to be an ostrich and go “but what about ME!!!111 you’re ruining the game for ME!!!1 if you get rid of M+ i’ll UNSUB!!!11”
You’re literally complaining about a social issue. This is not a system issue, i’m sorry. It’s human nature to invite higher levels. I promise you even if gearing was easier / harder people who put in effort will get invited over someone who doesn’t.
3 Likes
the issue with other people thinking M+ is being catered to is a social issue. the fact you are unable to see logic is not my problem. we can just stop here though. you won’t see anything you don’t want to so there’s really no reason to continue on.
1 Like
The logic you’re bringing up is literally human nature, so. sure. if that’s what your point was yeah. you nailed it.
regardless of gearing i’ll be in dungeon bis regardless of what they throw at us gear wise. sorry to break it to you, anyone who even semi puts in effort on their character will be close to BiS regardless of systems in place to stop it.
preraid bis? that was a thing. people will just be in “week 2 bis” like it’s literally the same thing.
the ONLY thing this alt gearing change actually changed was how fast people can get to gear to push content. nothing else changed. and it’s accessible to literally every single human that plays the game, whether you want to / enjoy it is up to you.
2 Likes
yep. that’s the entire issue that causes hurt feelings on all sides. the game isn’t hard at the level most people do it. mid tier keys and heroic raiding. once you start putting in the top end of the top end of M+ and mythic raiding the entire thing unravels. people who raid flex about mythic raiding. people who do +15s flex about the fact someone somewhere has done a +30. instead of seeing that almost no one can do the things they are flexing about, including them. the game has stopped being fun (seemingly) for a lot of people because they’d rather argue about 1st world problems on the forums than just do things they find enjoyable. human nature, etc.
2 Likes
WHO does this. LITERALLY LMAO i can’t dude. i swear i play a different game sometims. and in theory i’m supposed to be one of these people. huuuman natuuuureeee again pog
2 Likes
I’d also argue that Anxxy has a point when they say:
Like two things can be correct at once. There’s nothing to encourage people to take a lower geared player (outside of maybe Raider IO which Idk how that works) because like… Why should they? It’s less about flexing and more about time/efficiency. And that is a social issue and sort of a systemic one.
You can remove the harsh punishments for failure, but there are no rewards for being more successful either. And there’s no equalizer that will make up for a 10/20/30 ilvl difference in place at the moment.
1 Like
when i’ve done dungeons i’ve always taken a mix because whoever shows up that isn’t literally in greens and is not melee (if i have enough already) or ranged (if i have enough already) is who is getting taken. i traded technical BiS multiple times the other day when we were doing the weekly because it was a side grade for ME but a huge upgrade for the person i traded it to. some people are inherently selfish and think only about what is best for THEM but that is not the case for everyone. we did a tazavesh the week before and there was a monk with us (wife on druid and me on this dude) and he had a crappy weapon and had gotten not a single drop but the boss that drops a 2h he could use dropped for my wife. she knew without even asking to give it to him and she did. my polearm is still the one from the dune rare. but ms > os. and especially ms > os when someone hasn’t gotten anything at all and it’s very obvious what they were there for. same thing when a nelf hunter asked to do a dungeon specifically ( obviously specifically a trinket that dropped for my wife i suggested she trade him, and she did.) my wife got multiple rings she could’ve given me but mine were higher ilevel than the person who asked if she needed it. that’s just… not being a dinkus. it’s just gear. pixels. you can do whatever it is until it drops again. i have insanely good luck in everything so it’s not a big deal to me to rerun (look at my weapon, for instance. that’s what i got from the weekly. wasn’t gonna cry about a 262 os polearm)
i just want content to be fun for everyone homie. people have this like idea that loot has to be exclusive to m+ or raiding. make both great and fun. please even world content i wouldn’t mind getting some love. just make everyone happy and not some happy and others upset.
2 Likes
Not entirely true. If someone in the group receives a boost in rating, the group receives an extra 65 valor on top of the 135 for completion.
So for running 2s and 3s for valor farm, grabbing one or two complete novices for extra valor is fine because someone who can do 15-25s could probably solo the dungeon and still make timer.
This is why we saw a lot of 280-290 ilvl players running 2s the first few weeks of the season and it was very easy for a newcomer with no gear or experience to list their key and fill the group in seconds.
The lowbie got access to quick, easy runs with plenty of loot and the high end player got to farm valor faster to upgrade their gear.
1 Like
People also fail to realize how much M+ kills raiding. Specially after Shadowlands.
People feel “required” to do M+ over LFR or Normal raids. People also have this issue of massive gate keeping and elitism over Raids but they also fail to realize this type of thing is far more common in M+
We all remember Legion with the AOTC and KSM achievement link requirements for groups and Raider IO scores. Players could even get denied on their own keys as well claiming the player wants a free carry or they demand gold payment to join their key.
Join a guild? Sure. But there are ALOT of loners who want to pug and gear for content.
Decent thing about M+ back in legion was it wasn’t the BEST way to gear, it was optional. World quests were the beast and still are back then for mythic level raid gear drops.
Also please remove the free gear from completing weekly pvp or M+…
People dont feel excited or good at all with how gear progression works and just default to doing old content and completionism content.
4 Likes
Weird… All I saw on Stormrage when I returned and hit 60 was people demanding gold for 2’s and up and specifically for new players to pay this fee for their “services” lol
2 Likes
Mythic + is, quite frankly, the only enjoyable thing left in the game. lol
Raiding gets boring quickly, the world content is a joke, pvp isn’t half as good as it was ten years ago and the lore is awful.
Pushing keys with some close friends though? That is still fun.
4 Likes
1 Like
Well, I doubt that was very wide spread. Seems similar to people selling vendor items on the ah with 1000% mark up. Sure it’s doable, doesn’t mean anyone is buying.
Tbh I feel like you’re just making stuff up or pretending one instance is how everyone is experiencing it. “denied their own key” yeah, sure bud.
That is YOUR opinion… doesn’t make it true.