Promise? Be a real letdown if this is a lie
Is this even a talking point from M+ supporters? Yes, M+ is repeating content. The point is that itâs repeating content at whatever difficulty the player is ready for. Until you reach the point where itâs mathematically impossible to move to the next, there is always a next difficulty to challenge yourself.
You might be 100% correct about this. But why should we care?
This is the part that you donât seem to ever respond to when itâs brought up. If I enjoy M+ more than any other game mode in WoW, possibly even any other game I play, why should I care what the reason was for Blizzard adding it? Why should I care why Blizzard continues to maintain it? Unless they change it such that itâs no longer fun for me, Iâm going to keep playing it. Itâs really that simple.
Youâve actually answered this question in your posts. Blizzard doesnât need to. If the core audience for M+ is already satisfied with the mode, why is Blizzard going to put even more resources into doing more for it? Yeah, that may make M+ players our own worse enemies. But business wise it makes sense to do the minimum work possible to achieve the intended goal.
Nevermind the fact that a lot of M+ detractors insist that dungeon development takes away from other aspects of the gameâŚ
M+ saved this game, keep telling yourself otherwise
Thatâs why every so often, we get the so called god-comps. This bleeds out to those who are just beginning mythic plus or are chasing vault slots. Donât worry I support meta, I support off meta and I support people making their own choices out of free will.
What I do want to shed light is that it breeds toxicity. I understand the plethora of reasons to pick/not pick someone over the next person. I understand playstyles, time constraints, preferences and enjoyment.
The point being made is, the mode promotes competitive dissonance.
We should remove M+. It has killed the game after all.
Agreed, as a healer mythic +at times has had me question my reasoning for even playing this game anymore.
Do that and Iâm unsubbing 
Something tells me a lot of people would too.
I like a challenge, and I like a challenge that doesnât demand I login at particular times during the week, and I like a challenge that can be completed with a smaller group than whatâs demanded in raids.
If ya donât want to play m+, donât. Simple as that. Especially considering delves are coming around.
You play what you like, and weâll do the same.
Think thatâs quite fair
Yea, almost every expansion I have played since Mists I have to find another guild because the one I am in died. I am almost at the point of being tired of the slog myself and I skipped Shadowlands and most of BFA/DF. This expac when I came back with Amirdrassil, I leveled a fresh toon on horde, geared and got the aotc kill in 6 days flat. Where is the growth and character progression in that? It seems to no longer exist in this game IMO.
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It gave it much needed variety and a boost for sure. However it definitely fed the max/min people to the point of absurdity.
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In what way?
The min-max people were already fed to the point of absurdity, m+ didnât change that. The community of this game (and just about every blizzard game) has always been on the min-max train.
Did you ever try playing a feral druid in vanilla? I got shunned and shamed by the entire community for trying to dps deadmines at lvl 20. Id even get whispers from people just walking by in the open world telling me to delete myself for trying to level up.
This game has ALWAYS pidgeon-holed players. Itâs actually better now than ever. I feel sorry for anyone that played a prot pally back in the day. The same goes for non-resto shamans. Raids used to only take 1 rogue. A mage was ârequiredâ for being a water vending machine.
Look at classic raids, nothing but warriors.
M+ is the best thing to happen to wow in decades and has singlehandedly carried the games popularity for the last 6 years.
same.
it no longer exists. with m+ you can just about come close to max ilvl, aka out gear mythic raid in as little as 5-7 weeks, aka 100x fastest than the average player in an average mythic guild will see 2 or more boss drops of items they dont need cause they are already wearing better.
m+ kills raid guilds.
m+ killed raiding.
m+ kills all sense of the old school power creep that we were all used to from raiding.
m+ causes burn out.
some quick facts about me:
despised m+ up until about a year ago. i am a beta player that raided an attained not every, but a handful of ceâs in various xpacs. m+ caused too many of my in game friends to quit. right now i quit mythic raiding because of m+. i run it and lead pug groups to aotc in as quick as 2-3 weeks of release just for feat and mount. but after that i just m+ and cap out my toon in as little as 5-6 weeks and i camp.
m+ ruined wow for me personally. but you cant be in a guild and raid unless you grind it and stay as geared as possible. but because it takes up so much extra time and then gears you out, there is no reward or incentive to raid anymore. for me anyway.
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It sounds like mythic raiding killed mythic raiding along with modern culture. The world changed, vastly sped up. The playerbase has also aged, many have kids. I think if you want to see mythic raid be more accessable and give guilds a chance to survive it better, then mythic raid needs to change with the times.
Why do we still have raid lockouts?
Why canât mythic raid flex from 10-20 players?
Thatâs the problem with mythic in my opinion. Itâs incredibly hard to get exactly 20 dedicated people (realistically 30 for subs/comps) every week where some of them wonât even get to join in. Pair that with real life responsibilities and youâre really grasping at straws for players.
the only lockout that needs altering is the id. the fact that you cant run it with multiple groups is the main issue. but at the same time, pugs that will be able to go into mythic raid and clear 2-3-4 bosses are few and far in between.
the same reason we removed 10 man raiding at the end of mop. because they wanted 1 mode with a set amount of players that was easier to balance.
that was never an issue pre m+. even with 25 players. the issue now is that we are being spoon fed to max ilvl in as quick as 5-6-7 weeks with 0 chance of failure. it is the path with least resistance and instantly removes all incentive and reward to raid.
yea cause players dont have time to run 6-12 hours per week of raiding. but yet got time to run 10-20-30+ m+ dungeons per week.
but dont let my comments fool you. i am pro m+ now and have been for almost a year. i love decking out in a matter of a few weeks, getting my feat and aotc and never need to step foot in another guild or do mythic raid progression ever again.
Itâs not a problem for any other difficulty
People taking the easiest path to gear and quitting sounds like they donât actually want to do the content and just want gear. Personally if mythic raid was easily accessible Iâd gear in m+ and run raid for the challenge.
Youâre omitting that those m+ runs donât require herding as many players and can be done spontaneously
you are talking as if you are just gonna randomly grab a bunch of random players with or without discord and co-ordinate full mythic raid clears. that is absurd. so i dont quite understand you when you say mythic raid should be more âaccessibleâ.
m+ and mythic raiding are in 2 different universes. i cannot sit here and throw out a factual %, but if i had to take a shot and guess, i would guess that 90% of mythic raid guilds dont even get to kill half of the mythic raid bosses in a mythic raid. so if your definition of âaccessibleâ implies that we should be able to run mythic raid as much as we want per week, then that is a far cry from what is possible, unless you are buying run after run after run from a rwf guild.
the game is just about 20 years old and you didnt know this? you know people work so they can get money right? same goes with raiding and hell even m+ for that matter. getting rewards is the fun factor. but with m+ handing out overly inflated max ilvl gear for just basically logging in, removes the fun factor from mythic raiding. its common sense.
Accessible for me would be as simple as removing raid IDs so I can help out more than 1 pug that does 2 pulls and calls it for the week
Yes I realize people in general need said rewards but I can use myself as example here. I was fully geared this season in approximately 3 weeks. I spent the next 9 weeks helping my guild do heroic clears knowing fully that this would do absolutely nothing for me, but it was fun.
While that may be the case, one of your points to try to demonstrate this completely misrepresents why many players seek meta comps. Itâs probably the single most repeated fallacy regarding meta when people discuss it with WoW. People care about meta far below where meta is required for reasons other than thinking the run would be doomed to failure if they didnât bring meta.
The rest of this post, whether right or wrong, is a complete deflection.
Yes it was. Perhaps not for guilds you were in, but that was certainly not representative of my experience. We rarely had the exact same 25 man raid all raids in a week, and we were constantly replacing our bench as those players got sick of never knowing whether they were going to spend that night getting to raid or if they were going to be doing laps around Dalaran for 3 hours.
The way the time has to be distributed between raid and M+ is in important distinction. I probably spend more total time in game these days than I did back when I was raiding, but it comes in much smaller chunks that fit far nicer into my daily life. I canât really do much (progression wise) with the 45 minute block between when I get home from work and before I need to start cooking dinner; but I can realistically shoot for a personal best key in that time without knowing who amongst my friends or guildies are available. When raid was the only progression avenue in town, there isnât much point to me even logging in during that 45 minute window.
The revamp of armor to remove cleavage, widen bikini lines, along with changing /emotes like /whistle from a âlooking good babyâ to a âcome over here roverâ sound just to name a fewâŚ
Easiest most toxic unenjoyable gameplay consistently that WoW has to offer. M+ and the MDI have almost gutted what an MMORPG is about. A holy trinity group working together as a team. Now you get an unkillable DPS tank that plays to the tune of its own drum and couldnât care less about the 4 other players. Dungeons used to be challenging and required teamwork. A dungeon with 1 player blasting ahead before everyone is even logged in and ready while 4 others struggle to keep up, get killed off, and get locked out of boss rooms is the worst experience Wow has to offer. Tanking is by far the easiest role to play and also the easiest to be toxic with. Protector of the group? M+ has made speed-hungry selfish inconsiderate players who couldnât care less about teamwork.