they still are if you’re talking about m+
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Impossible. Jelincic said it improved subs. Surely people aren’t subbing just to say as much on the forums?
Plenty of armor has cleavage
M+ is not challenging. Setting up a UI with annoying addons is the challenge, and then it’s finding people who are not against you and will actually play the game, that’s the second challenge. The rest is pointless and unbalanced on Blizzards end.
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Then go up a key level. If that still isn’t challenging, repeat the first step.
oh for sure. everything is easy if you simply do it perfectly. duh
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yawns
Which makes it even dumber to nerf some of it but not all of it, and vice versa.
Becoz these entitled players want to join M+15 or even M+5 with their joke gear and joke dungeon experience. They should be patient and do it safely from M+2, climb up slowly few levels upon learning the dungeons.
To me, to easily beat Raid, I could gear up from M+ first. M+ is a help not an obstruction to gearing. Of course, I am now Casual. Becoz of limited playtime, I could only do one… which is M+ which is very accessible. I could do Raid if I have more playtime. M+ is not damaging WoW’s raiding. Simply, I just dont have time to Raid as a Casual.
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Mythic+ isn’t fun.
If you remove the rewards from raiding, mythic + and Pvp.
People would still raid and pvp. No one would mythic+
This never happened, no one cares what you played in vanilla.
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If that’s what they like why does it matter? That’s rhetorical no need to answer.
I’m sorry what?
M+ is the best thing they’ve ever done. Adding in the gear upgrades was even better. I’ve never enjoyed pvp so ya never lost me in the pvp population. As for raids? I’ve been kinda done with them for awhile now. I used to be all about getting AOTC, but now I don’t really care much about it anymore. Heck, I even would run raids that I was locked out to because I enjoyed it so much.
As a tank, raid slots are quite limited. It’s also very time consuming. If people mess up the mechs it’s a guaranteed wipe and you’re there for at least 3hrs/night. Not saying m+ is immune to wipe mechs either. That being said, I will still dabble in raids with my Aussie friends, but it’s very casual.
Overall, I enjoy the challenge that m+ presents more.
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Personally Dragonflight was my 1st experience doing M+.
It was quite the journey too.
Managed mount and title every season and portals, 95% fully pugged and I only ran my own key a few times.
IMHO, if it wasn’t for M+, I would have quit 2 months into xpac and never came back.
The issue I have with these “m+ ruined xyz” is your arguments 100% revolve around gear acquisitions.
Believe it or not, there are a few of us that are here to play the game and enjoy it, not just gear up, then do it again on alts.
This is how you know someone is trolling.
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You’re entitled to your opinion. But so long as it’s possible to progress in M+, I’d still play it even without gear. And given the number of keys run between where rewards stop and title, it seems likely I’m not alone.
I’m pretty sure more people would do Mythic+ over Mythic raids. Just because getting 20 people together is a bigger barrier to entry than getting 5 people together.
Most people have 1 or 2 friends that play the game with them. Not 19.
Would you say that M+ has pretty much replaced raiding for you? As far as challenging end game PVE?
Do you know why it works better for you than raiding does?
While player count is a big one, honestly M+ has two other structural differences from raid that also encourage more participation.
The first is that each engagement is designed to last 30 - 45 minutes with no follow-up. Your group completes or doesn’t complete the dungeon, and then your commitment is over. If the group worked out the players can choose to sign up for another 30 - 45 minutes, but there is no social obligation to do so. This makes it a lot easier to squeeze into other commitments each player might have.
The second and possibly more important structural difference is the sheer volume of difficulties that exist. If my usual crew is rolling 13s, I probably can’t sleepwalk through a 10 with a PUG, I’ll have to pay attention if I want the group to be successful. That means I can run a level where the success chances are higher yet still requires me to engage with the content in the way it was designed. If my usual crew is running heroic raid, I’m likely going to be bored out of my mind in normal raid, even if the group itself is at the level where normal is appropriate.
The only advantage I see raid carrying as it relates to participation is being fresher over the course of an expansion. For the past 3 expansions, M+ has received 10 new dungeons; given that at least 8 dungeons have been included every season, that means raid has the edge in terms of truly fresh content season to season. But for basically everything else, the only players who I think we should expect would choose to raid over M+ are the players that simply enjoy raid more than M+ for whatever reason; for players that can go either way, M+ is far more approachable.
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I have been raiding more in the last three expansions than in all the others combined. That’s not to say that I didn’t raid before that but it was hit or miss depending on the expansion and patch (I actively raided all the popular raid at the time).
The key to raiding regularly is being a part of guild with a core group of player that enjoy raiding together. It’s a social activity and needs to be treated as such. In other words it’s more about hanging out with friends and acquaintances and having fun than it will ever be bout technically engaging with the game as if it matters how skillfull everyone it’s.
And progression doesn’t really matter as much as some players demand it be so. Some raids we finish heroic, others we only finish a normal. Yet almost ever single week we are raiding together and having a blast at it.
That kind of social mindset isn’t really going to work for the average or semi serious mythic+ player, who is mostly pugging, rarely talks to their party, will throw a friend under the bus if they aren’t rocking the best gear, spec, class, or comp meta. While we will run mythic+ as a guild every now or then, it’s no really a social activity in the same way as raiding. It’s not going to attract the same mindset in players.
To each their own. If your idea of fun is getting together with 10+ other players to take walks at a game mode where you can hang out, plan, and work together to over come some game challenge, find that group of friends and run raids. You can try until you succeed. There no need to get stressed about it.
If you are more the solo keep to yourself kind of person who wants a game challenge with other players that you don’t know and don’t really need to interact with that much, focus on mythic+.
And finally, there is nothing to prevent anyone from enjoying both. Especially if you don’t take any of it that seriously.