I think we say 2 vault slots for the first 4 weeks then drop it to 1, but we’re also roughly on the HoF borderline in terms of progression. Some people in the guild do more, but most “Mythic+ farmers” have been caught up to by the middle of the raid.
I do kinda like this. I think fundamentally the raid vault shouldn’t be able to give you an item at an ilvl from a boss you haven’t killed yet, but something needs to change to make it still accessible during periods of extension.
This isn’t really that weird. Folks wanted to be able to do more than just log on once a week to do stuff PvE-wise in-game. That’s literally all M+ is when one boil it down in terms of how it has affected the game.
Extremely unlikely.
What developers wanted to do is add more content, so they used the framework of content that already existed and created more challenges to it. That’s why the process of M+ began in Mists of Pandaria with challenge dungeons rather than with Heroic or M+.
The community got a massive boon, not a deficient from this. “People asking for smaller group activities to suck it up and join a guild” my god, that is a strawman and a half.
Folks wanted more PvE content so they used the framework of dungeons and the experience people have with other Blizzard games like Diablo. Like it or not but people like M+ because it feeds into the gameplay loop of being able to play the game. Guilds and raids has nothing to do with that aspect.
M+ literally just filled a hole that otherwise was filled with people raidlogging expansion after expansion until they had no other reason to login and play the game … so they stopped. Maybe you are happy with raidlogging but as someone who has seen what that does to a guild and communities overall … no.
A lot of guilds and larger communities still exist today specifically because of M+ providing another avenue of PvE and a reason to be part of a community.
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I mean it’s not that m+ saved us from the meta hunters now. Most people are playing wack-a-mole attempting for an invite to a key. It’s worse than job applications for some sadly.
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Also honestly i hate that take. Not liking the current iteration of Mythic doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy difficult content.
I very much do. Feel free to armory me, exact same name, Evoker on Sargeras. Just won’t let me switch toon on mobile.
Haven’t played retail in ages but when i do i generally do very well.
I just don’t like 20man raiding. Too much logistics, too impersonal, too much “stuck raiding with certain people for XYZ reasons beyond actually wanting them around”. It literally feels like an unpaid part time job.
I just want to have fun with the bois, with people i actually want to spend several hours a week with. Give me less loot, less brez’s less cooldowns etc. Idc.
And yes Heroic is flex but guess what heroic is boring AF and gives loot that is completely obsolete if you’re semi competent at M+.
Case in point, literally the only reason i’m subbed atm is 10man raiding in Cata classic and its really fun. No drama, no bullcrap, just killing heroic (when it meant mythic) pixels with the bois.
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Rewarding gear for not killing any bosses is a difficult issue to solve.
Definitely, and while it sounds like a stupid thing to even attempt, it’s a fact of mythic raid progression that you spend roughly 1/3 of it not killing bosses.
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I agree it’s an issue, just hard to think of a creative solution.
How much does having the alternative gearing source of mythic+ also aid in making extending more practical?
Extending is trading loot for more prog time, except the raid still is getting loot, just not from the raid, so they are only trading some loot.
Not sure if or what they should do.
Extension is a vital part of making low hours raid guilds work. Once reclear takes half to a full night a week it’s REALLY costly to keep going back.
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Agreed.
I just don’t see anyway for them to let players still get mythic raid loot in a given week when they didn’t kill any mythic raid bosses.
Giving players a vault for having an extended ID with killed bosses would be super exploited.
Would they extend if m+ wasn’t a thing? Or rather, would they stick to low hours that makes extending a necessity if they weren’t allocating hours to m+?
If my guild’s anything to go by as examples go they’d quit. The point is getting progress we’re proud of whilst keeping the hours down.
Realistically, the only sure fire way to make it so players aren’t “forced” to run content is to have the game simply stop providing gear from all sources after a condition is met per week.
Example 1: Once you receive 2 pieces of loot from all forms of content, you can no longer get another piece of loot from any form of content for the rest of the week. The item you pick from the Great Vault does not count in this list.
Demonstration 1: Daiza runs 3 mythic+ dungeons and recieves 2 pieces of loot from the dungeons. Daiza will no longer recieve any loot from running further dungeons, M+ or raids. Daiza will be ineligible to loot in raids even with Master Loot and gear cannot be traded to Daiza.
This of course would open up an hilarious amount of problems however, but it would kill any and all types of farming outside of your preferred form of content.
Correct. M+ has nothing to do with something which the community is doing to itself, that’s true.
I don’t think that was the point you were trying to make, but that’s what you said when one get to the point of what you actually said. Furthermore this is largely a forum talking point than actual reality even in the fringe cases folks do try to mimic better players in HEAVILY organized group settings.
… yes? This has no bearing on anything. Dungeon content in WoW is structured to require 3 DPS, 1 healer, and 1 tank. That means multitudes of DPS apply whereas a handful of which are qualified depending on how strict you are to give people a chance or whether or not you want a “safe” key. All of this means that DPS have to apply a lot more and there’s a lot more DPS players than there’s healers and tanks.
If this bothers you the solution is to start your own group. Always has been, and likely will always remain the solution.
No. Just straight up no.
Even as a hyperbolic statement this is so far away and so far detached from actual reality it doesn’t even work as a hyperbolic statement. It is literally, factually, and nothing other than just straight up wrong.
So… No.
Citation needed
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My dude, the sub data was shown at the GDC from WoD until DF, M+ didn’t change how WoW has these boom bust periods. Classic saved WoW if you want to make this argument that the game needing saved. Classic doubled the subs in 2019, it was all down hill until SoD released last year.
Most people? I have PUGed KSM as a feral druid every season going back to BFA, and even PUGed a few KSHs as well. Perhaps at levels above this players struggle to get an invite to keys, but most people who are running keys are running at the levels required to get to KSH…
“save” is definitely strong verbiage… but it is a better end game pillar than raiding, from an engagement perspective.
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No classic saved blizzard subs. Retail subs were from M+.
Girl.
Remember guys.
In this “M+ is bad” argument, people are arguing that you should get bored with WoW and not play very often
That is their argument.
Its literally “whaa. stop enjoying something I dont”
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