It already does for most of a season. Once you’re already wearing full Hero path, your only progression from M+ is the weekly vault.
Nah it killed it.
Now you’re forced to do it because raids are designed with you having powerful gear not the previous weeks raid gear
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I’m confident in saying you don’t do any content that would necessitate m+ being run 
Do you have any quotes from people denying this? Most people focus on the fact that players can progress through content without M+ even today, which is accurate as you highlight. I can’t recall many people trying to claim the presence of M+ gear hasn’t contributed to the balancing points Blizzard targets.
What “actual” content was lost because of the presence of M+? There is FAR more non-instanced content today than there ever was from WoD and before. It’s possible M+ gives Blizzard the leeway not to develop as many raids as we used to see, but additional dungeon content post-launch had been pretty scarce since Cataclysm, up until Legion.
Sure, but how often do M+ detractors insist that loot is the only reason people run M+? There is a strong inkling toward gear NOT being the motivating factor for keys run above the level where rewards stop improving, and there are more of just THOSE levels of keys than any raid run. But beyond that, you are correct that M+ supporters can’t know why others run M+, just like M+ detractors can’t know how many people run M+ for gear, enjoyment of the system, or any other reason.
I am genuinely saying this with as much respect as possible - who cares? I enjoy running M+. Why should I care in the slightest what Blizzard’s original motivation was for creating the mode or their ongoing motivation for maintaining it? If Blizzard’s entire motivation at this point is to screw with mythic raiders, I can empathize with those players, but should I put mythic raiders’ enjoyment over my own calling for M+ to be made significantly worse for me so they have a better time?
Not for everyone it doesn’t. This is probably the biggest point of contention I take with your argument. You seem to only want to acknowledge the players who use M+ as a prerequisite or change-of-pace from raiding. You don’t want to give any credence to the players who simply prefer M+ independent of other game modes. I raid with my guild strictly for social reasons - it’s fun to kick it in raids with those people in particular. But if the players in my guild moved on, I would still enjoy WoW guildless because of M+. But your arguments seem to expect players like me defer my enjoyment to players who would prefer to do something other than M+.
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Yet here I am farming hcs for bis gear.
How did it solve the problem with m+?
Do you know that the majority of the wow player base is “casual” and doesn’t do anything more than LFR/LFD and open world content.
Then by your argument, if the introduction of M+ saved the game. How does that incentivize those “casual” players to stay subbed, not leave or return to the game?
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Can you provide me any numbers of the majority of casual players that havent stepped into m+ for entire season?
I thought so.
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By your logic, what proof do you have to support m+ saving the game?
Cool, so that’s their content. Now they’re getting delves.
M+’ers also have their content.
Problem?
Number of keys run this season compared to monthly subs.
Now where’s yours?
A sub gets you access to more than retail.
Next?
That argument greatly improves my theory since less accounts do more m+….
And it all went silent.
Mythic is for the first few weeks but by then runs of heroic with a consistent group would saturate at a similar point, heroic absolutely isn’t.
In previous guilds that I have been part of. They required four weeks straight of 3 vault of options at mid-high m+ keys.
Then afterwards, at least 1 vault option per week aside from raiding.
For what level of play?
Heroic/Mythic raiding.
Heroic I don’t see the need. Mythic people want to get ahead on ilvl to get the first 3-4 bosses down early / consistently for people’s vault options.
This isn’t an issue with m+ but rather a major archaic design flaw with raid loot. M+ is WoW modernized while raid loot acquisition is still stuck in 2004. Actually I would say Blizzard went backwards considering they have removed currencies like justice/valor from the game and significantly reduced loot drops from the raid since Legion. This has been an issue they have continued to make worse while m+ is constantly getting better treatment.
With that said there is so many ways Blizzard can address the issue with loot acquisition without alienating the m+ playerbase that wants nothing to do with raiding.
- Increase raids drops back to what it used to be
Tier bosses were dropping 7-9 pieces of loot at one point and mythic difficulty back in WoD was dropping more gear than normal and heroic raid was.
- Utilize the vault coin currency more.
Blizzard has the tools to know if your character is extending raid via the mythic raid ID so I really see no issue with using coins to maybe open a locked vault slot for the raid section. I don’t want to go into specifics on how this could be abused in some way as its just an idea.
- Justice and Valor points style currency makes a return
This was a great way to obtain raid gear when it was in the game. I know the catalyst makes this redundant today but I really think something like this is needed to make a return to reduce the friction between m+ and raiding.
With TWW just 5 weeks away I am kinda shocked Blizzard hasn’t really talked about the raid loot issues.
Ya, I agree. The raidleader did what they thought best. Although many of us weren’t too happy since we found it a bit sweaty for heroic. For mythic, I totally understand. You want every possible advantage. Even 1% can turn the tide in prog weeks.
It’s a weird situation. M+ was sorta pushed out as an alternative to raiding for smaller groups of friends, and rapidly replaced raiding because it’s much easier to pug and run without coms.
I also suspect there was pressure from the higher ups to either stop making dungeon content entirely, or make it relevant throughout a full expansion.
It’s a situation where I would’ve preferred they just told the people asking for smaller group activities to suck it up and join a guild. Same with the addition of LFR. The sense of community took a massive hit from guilds being made way less relevant.
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