We raid 9 hours a week and mythic suits us pretty fine. How hard a boss is while we’re not progressing it doesn’t really matter.
Challenge modes kinda sucked honestly.
Yes, mythic is catered to people who enjoy high difficulty content.
There are other difficulties that cater to people who prefer lower difficulty content. And now we’re even getting delves!
Problem?
Think they’re doing fine rn 
I’m not too sure about that.
Having to design and implement 2 different versions of the hardest difficulty can result in some weird tuning differences.
There are some fights where the group size difference means that 1 will always be substantially easier than the other. Much easier to design and tune for a single raid size.
Bingo!!! Most of the raiding player base are heroic raiders, but I feel like progression is tailored towards Mythic raiders.
I think a lot of M+ players don’t understand that Blizzard never intended for M+ to be the sole means of progression content for players. I think they really underestimated MMO players yet again that they would take the path of least resistance.
WoW’s entire model was built around a slower gear progression, and M+ just obliterated this. This is why they keep trying to add these silly renown grinds, and other grinds to give players something to do.
Running the same dungeons every week gets boring. Many of my friends just do their 8 dungeons and log off for the rest of the week. I’d say this is the average WoW player at this point.
So people say M+ fixed raid logging, but I don’t think it did. People poop sock M+ the first few weeks, but they eventually hit the diminishing return point and just begin to raid log, or M+ log after they do their 8 runs.
Blizzard needs to rebalance gear acquistion and give players other things to do in the end game if they want to fix raid logging.
My heroic guild reaches raid logging status probably a few weeks into a new patch. Like I said, M+ didn’tr really fix this problem.
Wow still suffers from the boom bust periods when new content launches.
The game needs more sandbox elements.
If M+ “killed off” raiding and pvp, what you’re actually saying is people that used to raid and pvp now do m+ instead. What that means is those people like m+ better than those other activities. What you’re really saying by your statement is that m+ is actually better than raid or pvp.
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I would actually counter that the game allowing you to raid log (or only log in for whatever content you want to be doing in a given week) without falling behind is actually a benefit, and not a problem.
One thing that you’d notice in raids pre-nighthold to post nighthold is how (in pre-NH), you would see a massive decrease in kill time on bosses as farm progressed. In Post NH, it didn’t really, because the boss was tuned around the idea you already had near max ilvl from endlessly chain-farming M+.
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This is why Classic blew up so much. The game was way more casual friendly. I’m all for systems like M+ existing for players that want to challenge themselves in 5 man content, but having M+ be the most lucrative way to gear your character, is basically just another grind we have to do each week to stay competitive.
So many of my friends either quit the game or are playing Classic, because they don’t have the time anymore to keep pace in retail.
I seriously don’t get why this forum is so hostile to this idea that playing the game 6-8 hours per week is a bad thing? M+ greatly increases this time, even for people that just run M+.
Yep, people love to ignore this, but this in fact the truth.
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Oh, yeah.
In terms of systems design: Cata > Legion. (now if only they removed the mandatory rep grinding for shoulder/head enchants…)
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Idk last time i took Retail Raiding seriously entire guilds of resident basement dwellers had to race change to goblin to deal with a random mid-raid boss and my own guild spent hours and hours wiping to every jim bob in the raid dying to these spikes which is precisely when i decided i was too old for that crap.
LFR, normal, and heroic are a thing.
I also don’t think mythic raiding requires you to race change to a goblin presently
But that’s a perfectly valid stance
Kil’Jaeden has entered the chat.
Painsmith required you to be able to survive a wall of spikes. You either had to be venthyr, night Fae, necrolord, or have some means to go around them.
This meant healing priests, who were kyrian at the time, kinda needed to goblin jump.
It was just healing priests though if I recall, they were the only spec that Had to be kyrian and didn’t have alternate means in their class kit.
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Is Kil’Jaeden a boss in DF?!
The problem is the canyon in difficulty between heroic and Mythic. I don’t want free loot. I just don’t want for every random nameless bosses to be 200 pulls ordeals.
This definitely is a problem. I actually think a lot of heroic guilds were disappointed in how easy Fyrakk was
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Well, that’s not current mythic. They’ve generally been good about only the last 2 bosses being 200+ pulls.
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Yeah we haven’t had a mid tier wall in DF.
Tindral’s difficulty / extremely late retuning is its own problem, but getting stuck at 5-6/X wasn’t really a thing.
Going off Amirdrassil, Tswift/fyrakk should have been a bit easier, with Nymue, Larry, and Council being a bit harder to compensate.
Give us a smoother ramp up from 1st boss to last boss, not a relatively shallow incline, then a step (smolderon), then a massive step into plateau.
I think the best example of them getting it right is eternal palace.
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In terms of difficulty curve: yeah.
Some of the EP bosses were stinkers however.