I would say that the game should just throw Veteran gear at us (free starter gear), but any source of Champion or higher should have a weekly hard cap.
Also, increase how many crests drop in mythic, so that it’s reasonably possible to cap aspects without M+.
There are a lot of little things that added together hurt WoW. For me I stopped doing raids higher than LFR and M+ because the mechanics and affixes got to the point I just could not react fast enough anymore. I stopped playing and subbing for about 10 months. I will try War within and hope the new open world stuff is good. I’m also enjoying the follower dungeons they added.
How did game do “just fine” with constant decline of subs since TBC? I mean it survived but it’s constantly declining.
Subs climbed until LFD was added, then it started yo-yoing where it would go up for expansion launches, then decay over the course of said expansion, repeat.
Y’all, sub fluctuations are due to a combination of several factors. There’s no isolated reason for them.
If I had to isolate what I’d argue is the single biggest reason for sub drop-offs, it’s that the core playerbase aged, and wow didn’t seem like a game that could be played by people who only had a few hours to kill throughout the week.
I’m not hugely sure it does is the thing. Take current ilvls as an example m+ would go to 515 with say… 2 pieces a week going to 522, and a vault slot at the end of the week at 528.
Given crest limitations if you were to only run keys I think the upgrade limit of 2 pieces a week to 522 + vault isn’t far off parity with the average player’s aspect crest acquisition. On top of that you’ve got the free KSM tier token.
If you want myth track all slots you still basically have to raid mythic atm anyway, or get it REALLY late in the season through repeated vaults.
That’s where M+ came and solved this problem.
Since Legion, the game continued to lose subs. The only bumps it got in subs was when Classic launched in 2019.
Your comments are not presenting any kind of thesis with evidence that the game was dying, and that the introduction of M+ “saved” game from sub losses and finacial losses.
DF was one of their worst selling expansions to date.
My point in challenging your assumptions, is that M+ really didn’t have that much impact on the game. M+ really just appeals to the core audience of WoW that probably won’t quit until they physically shut down the servers. I actually think M+ chased off a lot of players in the game.
Well, if you want myth in all slots in a normal season, Raid isn’t actually that much better.
Going off Amirdrassil, you needed to be 6/9 to have a full set of myth gear available to you from raiding, and once you got 6, it was time to extend until Fyrakk died.
I’m just sick of bs, arbitrary, random affixes.
Its not just an M+ thing, Blizz made it a game system pillar as it seeped in D4 as well.
Let me master something again.
There’s nothing fun about excelling at boss encounters just to die cause someone did’t see a random orb spawn in africa.
Affixes are all but gone in TWW. There’s two and they get replaced by a flat scaling increase past +13 I believe
Good. Only took them 5 expansions.
Agreed. I think m+ is much like arena in that regard. I could never commit to a raid schedule, but I could commit to an arena team.
Well, within the confines of this discussion, people are quite liberal with the term “forced”.
I’m not saying I disagree with the notion that m+ having no limit is a problem and that the rewards are probably too powerful and encourage dungeon spamming, particularly at the beginning of the season.
I’m just saying it’s a bit logically hypocritical to say “it’s not fair for raiders to have to run m+, but it is fair for m+’ers to have to raid.”
If dungeons provide bis gear for dungeons, that’s fine, but if mythic raiding is 10+ higher ilvls anyways, than high key pushers will theoretically be “forced” into raiding. Personally, doesn’t bother me at all. Think it’s great to encourage players to experience multiple bits of content. I generally like the gearing system as-is, with the concession that m+ gearing is too strong rn
It presents as 3 affixes: Fort, Tyran, new +20% HP/damage on all mobs.
Well, we aren’t saying that raiders shouldn’t have to run M+ at all.
The opening weeks of the season shouldn’t be 2-3 days of raiding, and another 4 of M+.
Yeah, this I 100% agree with
For me there are only really two, arguably three, aspects of m+ that break parity egregiously.
1: The first 2 weeks where m+ allows infinite farming of hero track items.
2: Once you start extending on mythic and no longer have access to raid vault slots at max ilvl until you finish the tier and your only source of upgrades is the myth track m+ vault.
3: Aspect crest acquisition being basically impossible from raiding.
The fact m+ offers consistent paths to 6/6 track hero isn’t inherently a problem, nor is the upward mobility provided by myth track vault rewards.
I’d say the problems are moreso that the raid vault is not fit for the purposes of progression raiding, and that aspect crest acquisition is a problem, than anything pertaining to mythic+ and the ilvl of its drops directly.
I would argue that being able to go from starter gear to full hero track gear (even if unupgraded) in 1 week is a problem.
That would be point 1 on the list. Potential is fine, rate is not.
Now tell me 10man Mythic is a thing and nerfed down to a level that doesn’t cater to the 5 people who still cares about the RWF and i might consider buying it.
Its also as if they had nailed PvE down back in MoP with CMs and 10man Heroic tuning and decided to overdesign it from that point onwards.