I’d never suggest removing it.
Just attempts at new forms of PvE content, delves are one such attempt.
Heck even the recent difficulty shuffle “mixed” things up for a minute and gave the mode a bit of a new car smell.
I think Delves are going to be just be more of the same thing.
Raiding and PVP killed off Raiding and PVP is a more correct statement. M+ just brought in and retained a ton of players that wouldn’t have continued to play WoW if it were not for its’ introduction. Raiding still on a week lockout is outdated, mythic raiding not being flex is dumb, raid rewards are way too slow (take away the week lockout resolves this), and PVP hasn’t had reasonable effort from the developers since WOD (honestly it has never had attention compared to raiding or m+ from the developers ever…but WOTLK, WOD, MOP, CATA at least had some attention). You can noticeably see Blizzard cares very little for PVP in the last few expansions. Sure they get a few people that care and make some good changes but you can noticeably see they don’t put even close to the attention to it vs raiding or m+.
Keeping people with carrot on a stick welfare gear has made the game worse
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Keys are so successful now final fantasy is copying it.
Also there is new ppl in keys all the time, they start at the lower ones, I gear alts so I know.
It also isnt easier leveling, you gotta know the encounters, there wouldnt be so many ppl bishing if it was a walk in the park.
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I find it funny when people say “welfare gear” as if gear at anytime of this games life it was even remotely hard to get or special lol
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What is your logic? Gear can be hard to get with rng.
Good gold at the end ofa key sucks.
They don’t need to, because in one form or another, most successful MMOs included this type of content already. WoW is relatively late to this journey.
One of the most popular forms of player-made instance in CoH were short timed high density farming ‘dungeons.’ All of FFXIV’s mid and high end content comes with a timer of some kind, though it doesn’t have the scaling, granted. SWTOR has its master mode flashpoints - etc. etc.
Even if we come to an agreement that M+ needs work, it will never be the case that M+ is unhealthy for the game in its existence alone.
That’s not is what being discussed lol.
I know M+ isn’t a massive portion of WoW’s playerbase, but if FF14 or even GW2 actually copied it, timer, scaling, etc then I’d be interested in trying it out over WoW.
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Didn’t m+ save the wow?
The only thing im sad m+ got rid of is challenge modes.
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How did M+ save WoW?
It gave ppl stuff to do except ppl striving to raid, perfect their craft, alternative way to gear up, can keep going higher and higher to test yourself with the chance of getting higher item lvl gear that doesnt require a raid size group to obtain.
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It didn’t these people are just exaggerating
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Was the game dying? Again, what proof do you have this saved the game?
I still don’t get how M+ saved the game. Would have people stopped buying expansions if M+ wasn’t around? Classic seemed to do just fine without it. SoD was wildly popular, didn’t have M+.
M+ is like 20% of the game for most players.
I’m still confused how M+ “saved” WoW. I feel like WoW would still be popular with or without M+. WoW’s IP is pretty strong. I think most players play for new expansions and new content, not recyled dungeons.
It gave people something to do, other than two dead brackets.
So we didn’t have anything to do in the past? Again, how did M+ save the game? Can you provide financial data and player data that shows that WoW was dying and that M+ “saved” the game?
Uhh, I dono about all of that, but its reception speaks for itself.
But it gave people meaningful content to do at end game that wasnt just dallies or trying to get into raids.
Raids can require strict scheduling to participate in while a key can be efficiently pugged if the other players had higher IO.
Coming from someone that played in wod etc, I really appreciate keys as it respects my time schedule but also allows me to show skill expression as I get better and better with my class and show my experience with the dungeon and its mechanics.
Before keys I couldnt do any of that, just gear up and try to raid, where now I feel like the best player I have ever been since I tested my class so much in keys and got an even higher understanding of my class.
In the past Dungeons would quickly become obsolete once you are geared a certain lvl so the only way up is raid, and if u cant schedule that you are out of luck unless u can pug, and pugs are very disposable.
I have as much data as you have. But judging by how popular it became, one could say that it’s one of main reasons the game is still holding on the way it is.
Check numbers after WOD and then Legion when m+ was introduced.
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They showed the sub data at the GDC, doesn’t look like M+ has had much of an impact on people unsubbing post expansion launch after a few months.
Holly Longdale talks about this in a few interviews.
What data sets do you have to show it is popular? Raiderio just shows players that engage with M+, doesn’t show the people that don’t.
WoD had 10 million subs, estimates put Legion around 8 with the lowest in BFA around 4.5 Mil.
The only time the game got close to WoD subs is when Classic launched in 2019. Since then, the game has had your typical WoW cycle of tons of people playing at launch and then people just leaving.
So I will ask you again. How did M+ save the game, when each expansion is following your typical progression for subs post launch?
Mind you, WoW has never reached WoD levels of subs since then.