Wod had a lot of subs at start but it was quickly wearing out its welcome, they even cancelled a story patch with grommash because the reception and retention was getting so bad.
Its style of raid or die left many ppl feeling like they had nothing to do but dallies and I was one of said players.
WoW was also at its peak with the āraid or dieā style.
So to me trying to tie sub count to any specific design feature in the 20 year lifespan of this game is fairly worthless.
You donāt think the reason people do m+ is because itās the low hanging fruit of the gearing/progression tree and players have become lazy and bis-driven instead of progression driven because cross server queues and lf-everything killed server and guild identity to the point where unless youāre world first progression doesnāt matter anymore?
I guess Iām just confused why canāt the devs just make 4 distinct gear paths that each serve its purpose amongst the 4 core pillars of gameplay.
I say 4 because Delves is now an endgame pillar.
Just have a gear progression track for raids, mythic+, PvP, and delves all be unique and distinct from each other. Where, when you get to the end of the gear prog, all sets are comparable with their own unique flavors but no real advantage over the other when using gear from one pillar in the other?
Maybe the visual distinctions can all just be 100% cosmetic?
It was a different time then and its no longer sustainable, the game was also a lot simpler and leveling took much longer. Leveling was an achievement in itself, not so much anymore.
Wildstar is a good example, it was raid or die but also had housing, if wow stayed true to the method of raid or die I dont suspect it would have retained as much players as it could have with the more accessible and still difficult key dungeons, they require as much knowledge as raids when done at high key level or being undergeared.
I donāt think M+ helps this lack of content like you think it does. My guild empties out after the latest raid is cleared every patch. M+ runs plummet after about 2-3 weeks.
I played Wildstar, it had way more content than WoW had, it didnāt die because it was raid or die.
Wildstar died from death from a thousand cuts.
Maybe, itās hard to say and speculate.
Classic and SoD and such have been very popular.
I enjoy mythic+, itās fun.
yep, it had a lot of small poor QoL and gameplay issues that in aggregate just didnāt workā¦ but Iāll be darned if the player housing wasnāt absolutely amazing
I can see why some people think that M+ sucks. I imagine as a low to maybe mid-tier dps, the OP can probably never get in a group. And Iām going to assume that like most people who whine about this topic, heās probably tried once or twice to form his own key and it went terribly so, trying to get into other groups (which is in itself, a meta-game) is probably all he spends time doing. I can see how this might sour him to do it.
To the OP; try playing a tank or healer. Mythic plus will always be available to you.
From where Iām standing as someone who came back during Leigon after a multi-expansion break and could be best described as āmidcoreāā¦ discovering that M+ was a thing was frankly an amazing addition to the game; if gave a very different style of gameplay that rewarded players fairly for their progress and they could get a good idea of how good they actually were based on the keys they were able to complete consistently.
Oh look, this thread again.
Let this thread die; you or any myriad of other forum contrarians making a strawman argument against M+ since none of you have a single coherent argument or thought doesnāt magically make them into arguments.
M+ provided PvE players with more incentive to play the game actively rather than merely be raidloggers and nothing else. M+ has had a massively beneficial impact on the game even if yaāll have made it your personality to irrationally hate on random things.
Hereās a suggestion:
Thor from Pirate Software has launched a Gamejam and have a plethora of resources to help people make games. I usually recommend knitting as an activity for folks with no hobbies but how about learning to make a game rather than to sit online whining endlessly might be an idea. Then you could make a game about a troll, rather than being a forum one.
I dont think your claim is true as ppl trying to get keys higher and higher, not just get tired after 3 weeks.
And we still get consistent story content in the forms of quests. If you are into that.
Since the goal post is so high with some not hitting 20s months after release, so players still have much left to do with keys.
Also Wildstar definitely did die because it was raid or die because it was severely lacking in things a single player could do and this was a vocal point if you werent into raiding.
Even the devs of wildstar said it was insane in modern day to make a hardcore raiding game with nothing else to do besides raiding because housing certainly wasnt enough.
Of course they had other hiccups. But the raid or die was big.
I wouldnāt call it the āEasiest.ā
Mythic Raiding is hard, but so are keys at higher levels.
I think the issue is less M+ vs Raid and more that heroic raid gear is worthless.
This is actually pretty insulting to say. Free stuff?
Interesting that you have this take when looking at your achievements, the highest one I see is for doing a 5 key. I donāt see any raid achievements either? Which I checked my character who didnāt raid, and they have achievements on their armoryā¦ so why donāt you? Iām confused, are you doing this content or not? Because between the inaccuracy of what youāre saying and lack of info on your achievement section, Iām assuming you donāt actually know what youāre talking about.
To be fair, just based off the negativity in their post, I donāt want to invite them.
So objectively the hardest content in the game (next to mythic raiding, which Iām SURE you are not doing.) should give bad loot? Make it make SENSE.
This reeks of you being scorned somewhere.
No, guilds create the environment to make friends. Who uses RAIDS to make friends? Majority of the time people raiding together are already friends, in a guild together.
Are you just doing LFR? Iām so confused and floored by the takes you have.
Youāve never PVPāed have you?
Imo what they NEED to do is make the heroic ilvl drops better.
True. The ilvl is the issue in heroic raid, imo.
lol, no. Thatās funny, though.
Best housing system ever made in an MMO.
Still more people pushing m+ than raid, right?
WoD had 10 mill subs before they started falling and then climbing back up at Legion.
By giving players escape from 2 other dead brackets, that are PvP and Raiding scene.
A game mode that lets you gear up by playing 1 hour a week compared to game mode that requires you to either join a guild and work 3x3 hour schedule for same rewards.
Better question/argument would be: What do you think is saving wow? It sure as hell aint pvp/raids/good expansions kekw.
Cause raiding is dying.
Well thatās a lie. Did you mean plummets in your guild? What are you clearing normals?
Only a small % of the player base does. The total amount of keys being runs drops a lot week over week during a season.
What does that have to do with M+ āsaving the gameā ?
No, this is just flat out wrong. The game didnāt die for this single reason. Get your head out of the sand here.
Wildstar was a mess from the very beginning. I played the game until they shut the doors, the game was mess from top to bottom. Did you even play the game, or just regurgiating crap you read online?
How does repeating the same dungeons over and over again fix raid or die? So, you add one more repetitive system into a game that still lacks meaningful content outside its more hardcore content, doesnāt really fix the problem.
M+ is only aimed a certain demographic of WoW players.
Major demographic apparently.
You are missing a lot of what I say that answers your question.
Hows does keys fix raid or die? Its more accessible and its difficulty levels can match raiding or even eclipse them.
And the questing I mentioned is in regards to new content, so the game is getting new content in quests and post end game, more than wod ever did.
And I didnt say wildstar died from a single reason, but a big one was its accessibility and only making future content for housing and raiding for the most part, its even listed in videos relating to the fall of wildstar as a reason.
Also I played the beta and got the game at release, with the special pre order trench coat and all, my favorite races Mechari and Chua, but I also just love everything about the dominion.
He/she refuses to check numbers and wants to troll with repetatitve questions āāhow, when, whatāā instead of seeing bigger picture. I sure as hell aint drawing it, I suggest you do the same. Some people are just bad with numbers.
I understand their passion for raiding though, but it was a very different time and its better financially and for the health of thr game to appeal to more players now than a minority.
I think they is putting a lot of emphasis on raiding which tells me a lot of their background, but we are moving forward now and keys are a good and worthy alternative to raids, especially with its difficulty modifiers.