What content do we have now that we didn’t have in the past? I’m not talking about systems, actual content.
But do people even care for innovation?
More of the same is sufficient.
Continue on with more raids, more dungeons and I’m content.
Are you saying M+ isn’t content?
I hate to bear bad news but systems are a form of content.
The ranked system of league of legends provided some of the most hours of content that any game on the planet has ever provided a playerbase but by your standards, that game would have nothing to do.
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this still going lol?
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So, you think the endless scaling of the same content is actually new content?
This is why WoW is slowly losing it’s relevance among modern gamers.
There are so many more options out there now when it comes to gaming now. The people grinding away at these repeitive scaling systems are just WoW addicts that are only here because of sunk cost fallacy and nostalgia.
Right, anyone pointing out how boring WoW is these days is off their rocker.
WoW is just plain stagnant now. They need some fresh ideas. That leaked sub info doesn’t look good for the game. I hope TWW rekindles interest in the game.
Old dungeons being brought into M+ with new mechanics is.
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he did far worse than ruin a bunch of imaginary characters. just go ask his victims.
It doesn’t matter what I think, that’s subjective. Content is any interactable in the game that drives engagement from the playerbase. Mythic+ does this.
Youre right but wrong. Your solutions dont fix it and only dig the hole deeper. Embracing the formula from 2008 doesn’t attract modern gamers. Modern gamers wan’t modern games. Not designs rooted from over a decade ago.
M+ is more modern than any other system the game has.
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Not saying which is better or worse, but playing the classic expansions again showed me wow was WAY less grindy. Especially TBC and Wrath.
That can be construed as less to do, which is fair, but crest/mythic+ grinding for months is pretty grindy.
Maybe it’s the nature of how many players do keys without ever raiding, but pretty much nobody that raids doesn’t also do keys.
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M+ is not a modern system at all. It is just another MMO grind system that is masking Blizzard inablity to make new content at a decent clip.
If Blizzard wanted to modernize their end game, they would blow it all up and start fresh with a focus on making a lot more new content around smaller group sizes, but nah they just keep pumping out raids with a bunch of bloated mechanics that you need 100 weak auras to tackle.
Blizzard needs a leadership change big time. I don’t know why you guys can’t see that WoW is kind of an inferior MMO these days that abusing the heck of content scaling to mask the limited content.
Even the post launch world content is just a bunch of dailies and weekly chores.
Yep, these guys are off their rockers. The game is more grindy, requires more play time per week than any other point in the game’s history.
Modern WoW has become a boring live-service game, that relies on grindy repetitive systems instead of making a fun game.
Have they? Dragonflight alone added tons of reps, renown farms, dragonriding appearances, new toys, new mounts, and new transmog for these folks to chase.
Shadowlands also had tons of casual focused content via the covenant sanctum minigames, renown tracks, mission tables, and collectables.
My impression is that the casual WoW community is the most catered to in the game.
Classic WoW dungeons and raids don’t have timers or any of these systems, and speedrunning is par for the course, if not an expectation.
I hate to break it to you, but players will optimize any system Blizzard gives them. Classic WoW, again, has very little in the way of difficult content that could require optimization, and yet it is the most min/maxed game on the market.
This is how people play games now.
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Seeing as how you went from defending 20m to “blow it all up and do smaller sizes”…Ima call this one a dub.
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Ah yes, because Rep gri…i mean rep far…daily ques…
Yes the repitition for those Shoulder Enchants was so invigorating and enthralling and years ahead of anything we have today in WoW.
“Content”
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What? Rep grind, rep grind, rep grind. TBC basically had everything gated behind rep even to do heroic dungeons.
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Responding to Title
I believe that M+ ruined PVE and Arena ruined PVP. That’s just me tho.
I like big groups and I cannot lie.
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For most of the reps you get most of the way to revered (to so heroic, later nerfed to honored, and Wrath didn’t require any of this) by just leveling to 70.
Then you spam dungeons. Maybe 15-20, for rep/gear to start doing Karazhan.
Then you never really need to do dungeons again because except for like 1-2 items the badge gear sucks compared to the raid gear.
So it has an early grind phase similar to vanilla when you hit 60 and grind dungeon gear.
But it tapers off pretty quickly.
I’ve probably done more mythic+ in 2 weeks than the total dungeons I’ve run in Wrath the entire expansion.
And with gear/crest grinds that dungeon grind lasts almost the entire expansion, not just once at the beginning.
Again I’m not saying it’s a better or worse system, and I mostly enjoy mythic+, but it’s clear grinding keys in retail is a WAY longer grind than past expansions.
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I never defended 20 man raid sizes. I was just pointing out why Blizzard kept 20 mans and how classes were designed for large group content, not small group content.
Every single M+ defender just gets so triggered when people point out the flaws in that system.
Yall are so worried about keeping this loot pinata system in the game, that you can’t see the bigger problem of how repeitive, boring and toxic M+ is.
There is probably like 5% of of M+ runners that acutally enjoy the system, the rest are just doing it for the gear.
Great point here, this is what I’m talking about. M+ put way more grind into the game. Dungeons were a stepping stone into the next form of content, they had an end point as did raiding. Now, all we are doing is endless grinding of the same content.
Blizzard ripped this endless scaling crap from Diablo 3. It works well there because that is mostly a single player game with a ton of build diverstity and gear diveristy. You can make some super OP builds there, which can make grinding the same content a new experience. WoW, everything has to be balanced, because people will cry that their class isn’t getting invited to the latest raid or M+, most of the crying is M+ runners.
Edit: One thing I’ve observed from a lot of M+ defenders, is that they don’t play other MMOs or other video games for that matter. They basically have been conditioned by Blizzard to accept these boring and grindy systems, because they really don’t know any better.
That’s not true.
It was nerfed a long way into the expansion cycle.
Which is a lot just for rep cause no one needed the gear at that point. Then you needed to rep grind for enchants.
What about Scryer/Aldor rep?
There’s content grind, which people do for fun like M+, and then there’s pre-requisite grind that gates people from being able to do content.
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Only because you didnt have the option of an additional loot funnel.
Take m+ out of the equation and its the same as its always been. Few Heroics, then raid.
Replayability isnt the same as grinding. Im not forced to constantly run m+ to progress. I do it because i enjoy it.
In the past i HAD to do it to move forward.
I enjoy spamming dungeons. I did not enjoy Isle of Thunder mob spam
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