I see it in other MMOs in the space but also ones that have been around for 15-20 years lol.
That is another aspect of modern design. The modern gamer demographic is very much into:
Press play > enter queue > enter match > starting playing.
This entire format is just outdated.
M+ didnât kill raiding. People never had a choice before, and now that m+ is available they made the choice to not raid.
I used to like raiding. Then, I stopped because the forced schedule and inevitable conflicts when you put 20 people in a high stakes and stressful situation made it not fun. Raiding is also repetitive and monotonous to me. M+ is just more fun for me and doesnât require a huge time commitment.
Lots of people complain about m+ being toxic. I suggest you join WoW Made Easy - itâs a Discord group that lets people group up in a no-pressure environment. This is a huge part of the reason I enjoy m+.
I said classes arenât designed for this style of hardcore content. As an avid PVPer, M+ has steered class design big time since Legion, and the effects on PVP have been awful when it comes to bloated class kits.
WoW class design has an illusion of variety, but I feel like they are very homogenized.
M+ is popular because of itâs accessibility versus the alternative.
Players will always take the path of least resistance.
The irony in all this, is that WoW was always a raid focused game. A ton of the post launch development time is spent on making new raids, which from what people tell me, are seeing diminished participation, because M+ is just a lot easier.
That makes me kind of sad that players would rather just farm the same 8 dungeons every week instead of tackling the new content.
Blizzard has created a pretty lackluster experience these days.
M+ really didnât fix the raid or die problem WoW has always had. I donât see how adding another weekly chore to the progression path was good for the game, especially using 5 man dungeons.
I think they should have just kept challenge modes and iterated on that system more. That way, it isnât part of the gearing treadmill.
This is true. WoWâs format is outdated, but the modern format has major drawbacks as well.
WoWâs big challenge has been queueability + challenging content. People complain when they are queued together with random people and are not able to âwinâ. So now anything that can be queued is steamroll easy.
Exactly. If M+ wasnât a better option or more enjoyable, people would have stuck to raiding.
I just want to impress upon the M+ defenders in this thread that Iâm not against having small group hard content in the game. I just think M+ is a boring system that doesnât offer enough variety.
You say this, but your 100+ post count in this thread says otherwise. You bash people for defending M+ and you basically do want M+ to disappear. You have Delves coming in War Within so why are you here again?
If it truly is âI just thinkâ then you wouldnât be in this thread posting 100+ times.
Define new content? I killed the boss on normal, heroic and now were on the 372nd pull on mythic. This isnât much different in concept to clearing a dungeon 20 times when I have fought this boss near 400 times.
This isnât a new complain though and again the issue was about the same in MoP and Cata (Before M+). It wasnât in legion. They literally ripped half the abilities from classes in legion for pruning. They only recently came back as recent as SL after the majority of the community complained all throughout Legion and BFA about all their buttons being gone.
If one piece of content is intentionally excessively inconvenient to do, it will be avoided, when better paths exist, yes. This argument does not prove or disprove quality of said content.
Perhaps because you find playing the game a chore. M+ are content the game has to offer. If you find playing content a chore, of course you wouldnât see it good for the game.
This is true but if it means being able to sustain a playerbase and stop churn, itâs worth it.
That makes no sense.
Objective fact that you cannot possibly debate: raiding offers several bosses each season (8-12 bosses). M+ contains 8 or more dungeons, each with several bosses and sets of trash with unique abilities, along with rotating affixes each week.
There is no way you could honestly argue that m+ has no variety.
Are you farming old raids in new seasons? Not counting fated seasons, which just Blizzard recyling like they do with M+.
M+ is becoming the defacto end game in WoW, which is sad, because Blizzard doesnât really make that much content for it. 9 new dungeons per expansion is abysmal, and now theyâre recyling old expansion dungeons to fill the content gap.
We are far less content now than we did in the past. Blizzard has abused the heck out of content scaling in order to keep the game a float.
Objective fact:
This guy thinks you kill current expansion raids one time and put the game on pause until the next tier.
Edit: This is someone I have blocked just switched toons. Welcome to my ignore.
Edit: Hmm 7 posts, whos alt is this?
This is just objectively not true. We just got distracted alot easier. Especially in the pre-mop and earlier days, all you did was grind attunement, do raid and wait to do it again. Get annoyed by your 10 daily quests until next time for raid. This is just rose tinted. Players had a âits about the journey mentalityâ, now they dont. We would complete old expacs in 1/4 the time if released today and we even didnt have memory of them.
As it was destined to. Small strike-team based content will ALWAYS win over mass organization logistics. Advocating for M+ guts so that raid lives on is like closing the internet so more libraries can stay open.
Idk what is more stale. Doing an old dungeon I havent seen in 4 years, or pulling the same exact encounter for months at a time. Just comes down to personal preference at this point. Personally I would love to see something like SOO come back for S4 instead of DF bosses.
Hilarious that the person who has their toon hidden is judging me because I donât have a lot of posts. I swapped mains to this guy. You have chosen to hide your characterâs page.
Tell me: how is three raids each expansion, which contain the same bosses each week, not repetitive; but m+ is? You clearly have an agenda and wonât hear any facts that go against it.
Play what you enjoy. The only barrier to your enjoyment of anything in life is you.
Anyone who presents facts and logical arguments can only be someone who was on ignore and swapped toons?
Nah, itâs true, there is just an illusion of new content, but we get fewer dungeons and raids than past expansions. Those Timeless Isle zones they make are all pretty generic, and the rest of the added content is just rep grinds.
WoW hasnât innovated in a long time. WoW expansions are basically 4-5 new zones, 8-9 new dungeons and 3 new raids now.
TWW is at least trying to add some new stuff, with a new BG and Delves. I think Delves are going to become super boring really fast. Just another repeitive and scaling system to pad play time.
Itâs almost like a lot of grown adults with jobs play this game and mini-raids (M+) respect their limited time more than a 2-4 hour 20 man project management meeting (Raids).
Who wouldâve thought?
Blizzard turned the game into a virtual treadmill, disguised as a game years ago, then got upset with the players, who they turned into a swarm of locusts grinding away on the very same treadmill that Blizzard created, didnât play the game for fun.
Blizzard forgot how to make a game fun without a grind fest, and doesnât know how to slow down the locusts who are the only players left running the virtual treadmill. M+ enters the chat.
WOW has only become less grindy over time.
this man is off his rocker, idk man I must have missed where all this content was classic through cata and then somehow missed it again playing them all in classic XD
You finally noticed lol.