Leveling dungeons are done WAY more in a rush than keys. Because our power level when leveling allows it. And there is no need to wait for resources to regen.
There’s a larger discussion underlying the timer that is often misunderstood. The timer in M+ doesn’t reward speed, it rewards efficiency. Very few dungeons have such tight timers that appropriately geared/skilled groups can’t take a methodical pace through and still time them until you start reaching into the upper echelons of keys. Big pulls when aligned with cooldowns are calculated risks to get value out of the cooldown and give the group a larger margin of error for the dangerous moments where small mistakes could cause problems.
Far too many people see the timer and associate that with tank recklessly pulling everything in sight because the clock exists. And while there certainly are tanks that do this, the most successful groups are the ones that can appropriately weigh the risk versus reward of how big to pull for efficiency; and the groups that do this will set a faster pace as a side effect.
Blizzard give people that, now Mythic zero rewards normal raid level from bosses and heroic from vault it has no timer. Also delves are coming in TWW which is yet another alternative to gearing. Peopke just like the wah wah and troll
god I miss the WoD glory days of a good tank and healer being able to just chain pull levelling instances and if the dps wanted to chip in, well god bless em.
M+ is the only part of Wow that I enjoy right now.
In my opinion, Blizzard should spend more time to innovate M+ encounters to be more engaging and approachable to new players, and it would be even more popular.
I can understand your point but i still think having a requirement on the timer is a problem. If you can blast through the dungeon then i feel the dungeon isn’t hard enough. This season I felt was a lot better, the dungeons felt threatening from M0 moving up, versus season 3 where you can effectively skip past key levels because there weren’t much increase in difficulty between them. I can see there still being a reason for a timer to encourage key upgrading between 1-3, but the key level shouldn’t be reduced unless you bail and fail to complete the key.
With an infinitely scaling system, there will come a time when you will no longer be able to blast through a dungeon. And that would be true whether a timer existed or not.
I think treating the timer as being just a measurement for grading the run is a mistake. It also adds a level of strategic depth to the mode because it puts a constraint on the group to maximize the resources available to their team. It’s a common talking point to mention groups waiting for lust on every pull if there is no timer, one that I don’t think is particularly likely even if there were no timer. But even if most groups won’t wait the 10 minutes for lust every pull, there would be an incentive for waiting 30 seconds for the next small CD a DPS has. There is an art to coming up with the right moments to go big and the right moments to take a rest while still pressing onward because of the timer.
As far as not depleting, that I don’t agree with. While it’s frustrating to lose a key level because any one of your team members making a mistake, it’s a rather crucial mechanic for natural difficulty honing. If a group runs a key that’s pretty far out of their league, the depletion mechanic will ensure they wind up back in a key level that’s appropriate for them. Such a thing wouldn’t be possible if untimed keys always stay the same. Perhaps depletion should take more than a single untimed key, but having no depletion after a second or possibly third untimed key would hamper that system.
And to make sure it’s clear, I have no problems with there being a parallel system to M+ that doesn’t include a timer or affixes. I know there’s at least some appetite for dungeon mechanics being the sole focus of increasing difficulty, and I’m all for there existing such a mode. I just don’t want to see the timer removed from M+ because it does more than just create undue pressure on the group. I would enjoy the mode less if there weren’t a timer.
I feel like a lot of people who don’t like M+ would like it if they had a chill regular group, but that doesn’t mean much, nearly any activity is fun with friends.
This is pure and total nonsense. Without Mythic+ Wow would be bleeding players. Who wants to spend hours upon hours listening to a bunch of nonsense in raid chat while figuring out how to get Billy Bob Mage to actually move out of the incoming damage after wiping the raid for the 37th time? I no longer have the time or the PATIENCE to raid, and I LOVE Mythic+. I can log on whenever I want and get into a group and run. Good times!
“Bad groups are ones where the healer sets the pace, good groups are ones where the tank sets the pace, and the best groups are ones where the dps set the pace.”
It’s tricky because a lot of the competitiveness is player driven.
Raid parse chasing is entirely player driven, and is a large part of classic.
Remember mythic+ score was originally player driven by the player made raiderio addon, Blizz just eventually put it into the base game since it was so widely used.
Complete speculation here. Every single M+ defender says this, but it is a very biased position. The fact that most WoW players don’t do anything harder than LFR and normal dungeons kind of proves this assertion wrong.
Why do you think the devs are making Delves, because the main chunk of their player base, the casual players that just do the easy modes and play to collect things have been grossly under served.
I don’t think M+ saved anything, I think WoW would still be alive and kicking just fine without it.
Blizzard has designed a lot of their end game around these player types. I don’t think it has been healthy for the game at all. I really do think their current leadership is just a bunch of out of touch old school elitist raider types. They have led this game down a very funky path, by catering the end game around the ultra compeitive player types.
The addon wars with the RWF guilds has created some of the most over designed bloated raids, and dungeon design is in the same boat by trying to cater to speed runners that want to pad M+ score by farming hallways of trash mobs.
Blizzard could fix this, with an overhaul to class design. Player power, threat generation and healing power is off the charts now, they could go back to the drawing board and create unique classes again that are designed around lets AOE everything down meta.