I loved running dungeons during “vanilla” because they did feel like mini epic adventures. Part of it was being bad at the game, part of it was being new, and part of it was how engrossing some of them were. I do agree I doubt we will ever see another Dire Maul or LBRS because it wouldn’t translate to M+ very well.
I think Mechagon and Kara remake were both okay and the closest we will get to it.
But when Classic launched a lot of players turned all the dungeons (and bgs) into speed runs for maximizing their time to reward ratios.
Whether mythic plus or just players optimizing the fun out of things, I don’t think speed running is going away,
Because achievements can be backdated. And you’ll get credit when the achievement system launched.
That’s why you have a lot of achievements on 12/17/2008 and it’s not because you went and did all those things on that single day.
It did require a login to a character with said achievements done, so it’s not a perfect reflection.
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Exactly. They leave because the group was so bad they only noticed one screw up. Nobody leaves a key that’s going well.
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That’s an easy report. Quoting for posterity.
We hear it constantly on the forums “oh it was just one mistake”, but when we ask questions about it they were completely unaware of the dozens of other mistakes.
Citation needed. Good lord.
ITT: Players that got their fee-fees hurt when they got called mean names in a dungeon they had no business being in.
I wouldn’t be playing at all if it wasn’t for M+
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I saw a streamer recently (venruki maybe?) talk about how watching wow players play isn’t very exciting because unless you also play at the level you’re observing, you don’t even have the ability to understand what’s going on.
His comment was more PvP focused, but it goes the same for m+. You’re watching a rogue dismantle a mage who wiffed his defensive, it looks like that mage never had a chance and/or rogues are overpowered. But roll it back and point out that error and it’s a completely different clip.
Ditto m+, watching Yoda’s team do a +20 and the healer is in cat form the whole time and nobody is taking damage and everything looks hunky dory, because there’s 100’s of actions taking place that aren’t apparent, defensive going out, CC being coordinated.
The average player doesn’t even know what they’re looking at. “Everybody died on this pull, healer most be bad”.
Game had valid criticism for sure, but m+ isn’t the reason that Ion wanted the mythic scene to be so scarce. M+ is keeping wow relevant.
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This is so true. People, including myself, can’t fully appreciate or comprehend the nuance of things that the top players are doing. Same goes for people who tried M+2s a few times and think they understand it all because they generalize their small sample experience to the entirety of M+.
This is where you get people coming to the forums saying how healers aren’t needed because tanks are OP. They can’t grasp the planning and group sync required to pull it off without overlapping interrupts, stuns, ect. They just see a big pull and no one dying.
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There absolutely is reason to deny that claim.
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It’s true. When they made the shared achievement for the shoulder glow and had them be CE, gladiator, and KSH (lol) it’s because they were on par with each other.
When you want a mythic track item for the week most people just faceroll easy mythic raids instead of +8s because 8s are WAY too hard.
Same with crests, a +6 for aspects??? No way dude, pugging 9/9 mythic for my aspect crest cap.
In fact most guilds do an early push to clear 9/9 mythic before daring to zone into a +8. Just too difficult for them.
Without m+ I probably would have left after getting the mount from awakened normal. I played my new shaman a lot more than I did my main, even played even more remix, so I really don’t know.
I did swap main this season to my DK so it changes gameplay quite a lot.
M+ become a pillar that everyone has to participate in because of the gear upgrades it can offer. Even as a raider I was asked to do X amount of keys to maximize my gearing potential.
If I have so much time in a week to play WoW and I’m required to play M+ then I guess that’s all I do.
Some people also enjoy the more “instant” gratification part of M+. In a raid you could be pounding your head against a wall for weeks earning little to no rewards under a raid schedule whereas in M+ you can sign in anytime of the week to get a few keys in and almost guarantee a reward.
I can’t wait for delves to become another part of the problem. 
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Idk, I think M+8-10 are faceroll too. You can time with 20+ deaths.
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This cannot be emphasized enough. The amount of time that these players spend preparing, practicing, and most importantly, failing before they succeed is astronomical.
When you’re watching a world first key, or a boss kill, you’re watching the fruits of potentially dozens of hours of work. And so, so, so many people don’t get this.
When people say things like “git gud” it means, quite literally, “spend time improving, learning, and making mistakes so you can become a better player.”
They are, that’s kind of the point.
Max power level from keys are from a +8, something I’d put about equal to mid level heroic raid bosses like Dathea, Zskorn, and Nymue.
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They should tune raids to be completed every week too then, imho. That’s obviously what people want.
Mythic raid is the outlier.
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Ehh, I would Argue that it was the Timer they tied to the M+ Dungeons. They should have made them difficult and left off the timer.
It’s the Blitzing through content that is killing the game.
I love M+s but boy do I not like how cliquey they made guilds.
I know some people in my old guild got mad because our gold CM group had no desire to try to carry people through CMs when 2 were challenging for our good group to gold. but an expansion later it was a pain in the butt to try to get new players some groups and get them involved. Since that guild broke up and my friends stopped playing, I’ve been the one having to pug, which sucks and disconnects you from the guild.
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Players have completed content as fast as their power level would allow. I still remember 8 minute The Nexus runs back when Wrath was retail, and we were still 4 expansions away from M+ being introduced at that point. All the timer in M+ did was formalize the desire players already exhibited.
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