well wow is a dnd rip off after all
Except a LOT of people do keys above 10 where gear doesnât get better so thatâs patently wrong.
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Oh heâs a tank lol, no wonder he gets in groups.
The other puzzling thing I find is that folks that, understandably, get frustrated with not getting invited donât also turn to those in this forum that agree with them and say âhey, you want to group up and do some keys since weâre in the same boat?â
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Iâm not a big fan of M+ myself, but I know that itâs a big part of what people love about modern WoW. I donât think itâs damaged it so much as itâs kind of given people a detour from the old main road of quest > dungeons > heroics > raids.
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no i just want to get carried by inviting 520+ players to carry me through the +2
Finding raid groups as a tank can be harder than DPS since you only need 2 tanks, so most PUG groups in LFG already have those slots filled.
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Many of them seems to think, and in my opinion thatâs wrong, that raids are tuned with m+ gearing in mind. Is it faster to also do m+? Well of course, as with every other sources of gear, if you also do them, you get further faster. Who would have thoughtâŚ
Yeah 100% harder because no matter the size of the group, youâll always going to need only 2 tanks. Healers is the best role to get invited in raids.
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Theyâre two entirely different things.
Maybe what you mean to say is that âM+ killed off grinding for gear in the Raid.â Because THAT is certainly true. The avalanche of, not only just gear, BETTER gear than you get from raiding has changed WHERE you are getting your gear. But it hasnât stopped anyone from actually raiding.
If anything, itâs just annoying that I now feel I have to grind M+, which I find stupid and annoying, because Iâd be a fool not to pick that utterly low hanging fruit.
Run a +8 and get a GUARANTEED Mythic item??!! Are you kidding??? lol
But Iâm not doing that INSTEAD of raiding. Raiding is the real CONTENT.
M+ is just a means to an end.
I keep using the analogy of speed running old 8bit games. Thereâs a whole community now of people that speed run Castlevania, or Zelda, etc. Hey⌠good for them! But nothing about finishing Zelda in 22 minutes makes it BETTER. To me, itâs entirely missing the point. Youâre just doing âspeed runsâ⌠because there is NOTHING ELSE TO DO.
Thatâs what I think of M+. Once you master the dungeon in that 8-10 range, anything more is just⌠boring and stupid to me. Hey, glad other people get into it but ⌠itâs not a real game mode to me.
Raiding is the real game.
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Mythic+ didnât kill off PvP. It was someone with no knowledge or experience with developing or playing PvP experimenting on PvP expansion after expansion and doubling down with each failure that killed off PvP.
You nailed it, thatâs exactly the way I feel about it.
Or the lack of any new bg since what, WoD? Or the killing of PvP servers. Or the scaling up of pvp gear making them irrelevant in non pvp content. There are so many things to blame before pointing at m+.
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anecdotal experience does not matter whatsoever
a new starting player should not have to download 2304823 3rd party things just to be able to do content, and you would need to with how the game currently is
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Nope you donât need to. My rogue friend doesnât have any of those and he now has KSM. And heâs a new player.
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anecdotal experience and youre ignoring the point
They donât have to at all. You can do all content aside from the very peak of difficulty without any addons.
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Your experience is also anecdotal.
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Using words like âwelfareâ gear, Iâm not sure much of a discussion is to be had.
M+ is not in and of itself a bad thing. Although I was not a âcurrentâ player when the mode was introduced, Iâve slowly come around to it. Itâs an interesting mode and one I think many players wanted in some form or other for years.
When I first began raiding, it was during WOTLK and while the raids of that era were certainly long enough and fairly difficult enough to provide several months worth of replay-value in terms of reaching any sort of B.I.S. or possibly even raid completion. With that aside though, the weeks were rather bare outside of âraidingâ. Sure, you had Heroic dungeons, but once your singular character had progressed enough in rep and/or gear, heroics were essentially a âbreezeâ.
Even the 25 daily quests werenât really enough of, or even the type of engagement, end-game players wanted âmore ofâ. It was the raiding, or end-game avenues to gear that many players wanted âmore ofâ.
To that end, I think the solution given on Blizzâs part is a fairly happy medium.
One does not have to stop at their 3-9 hours on a raid each week anymore if THAT is their desire. The exclusivity of gear between the two modes does make for some gearing and optimization issues, but those are small-potato issues next to the bigger issue of player engagement outside of raid-logging.
As someone who enjoys group content for the collective challenge as much as the individual challenge, m+ provides another avenue to those interactions and challenges, on a repeatable loop. I find this refreshing and nicely complimentary to the previous, only gear at end-game by raiding or PVPân/RBGân method.
While we can possibly make issue with the âupgrade systemâ to the current gearing paradigm, I feel that it serves as Blizzardâs one limiting factor in order to extend the shelf-life of said current content for whatever horizon theyâve deemed, be that 3 or 6 months, etc, in terms of the crest system. Even inside that system, you can still move up and max out your weekly crest limits at a good pace, respective to your individual and collective group skill.
This can lead to other positives. Some groups/guilds/friends, etc., can progress and supplement that progress in raid with progress in M+, which in turn can supplement their progress in raid. In the old method(s), your raid could not progress outside of raid progress for the most part because you could only acquire the better gear in the raid. Now you can possibly get a few pieces from M+ throughout the week to supplement your raiding prog and vice versa as you go. This may certainly make it feel like players with limited time are very pressured to keep up, I acknowledge that much. But in terms of your invested dollar, I think it adds to the value. Even if a particular raid tier doesnât knock me out in terms of visuals or bosses, or mechanics, etc., at least I can explore that avenue in relatively the same difficulty via M+ and what that seasonâs bosses/dungeons are offering too.
Overall I find it a positive addition to the game, while it does have its negatives, most of that is in terms of balancing, which I feel Blizz could do a better job of, across the board than they do, but the mode itself I donât think is a blight on the game as a whole.
There is some concern that they might use the popularity of M+ to justify cutting back on resources devoted to raiding and that wouldnât please me, but as long as the two can co-exist from a development standpoint, they can exist from my perspective as a player.
Iâm not a fan of some of the affixes or the application of more and more mechanics, but I guess ya gotta shake things up in some wayâŚ
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its not âmyâ experience.
its many new playersâ experiences which is not a single anecdotal example, itâs the example of many playersâ experiences
you DO need to download raiderio, dbm, etc to be able to enjoy most of this games current content.
the barrier to entry for a new player is genuinely disgusting.
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Many years ago, I may have been inclined to agree somewhat⌠but after a sufficiently long absence from WoW, itâs a bit more obvious about whatâs really going on.
Mythic+ is not the root cause of WoWâs problems.
Itâs a symptom of deeper and longer-running issues.
And what would those longer-running issues be?
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Domineering focus on âendgame contentâ, predominantly some variety of dungeons, raiding, PvP⌠pretty much all types of content that seem to foster a more competitive playstyle.
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The general obsession with gear progression, which again is due to that fostered competitive playstyle.
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Something of a wider disregard of those who are more not mainly interested in content that doesnât really feed into the above in some way. Stuff gets added in every so often, but thereâs rarely (if ever) any proper consideration to make it into an actual âevergreenâ system.
As the old saying goes:
âDonât like it? Then donât do it.â
Easier said than done when youâre caught up in the never-ending hamster wheel that is this gameâs obsessive focus on power progression⌠but the only way to break that cycle is to drop the root cause, which is to ignore the power progression and only do whatâs necessary to meet your objectives.
And itâs surprisingly easy once you realize how puerile âmake numbers biggerâ is as a motivator.
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