Yes let’s just keep raiding that’s it forever for PvE endgame.it would be so good for the game.
some hybrid game of a LOL style lobby, that is PVE and just wow raids. I’d play that. (WOW without any character maintenance and class /spec swap at will.)
Closest we get is PTR for this.
Everyone in this thread that are doing mythic raid? Maybe 1 or 2?
The solution to this was already posted multiple times in this thread. Increase raid drops by 50% and end heroic bosses definitely should be dropping aspect crest. Crest drops in raid should be increased as well.
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That kind of speaks volumes.
If difficulty was relatively equal between them why aren’t people pugging mythic raid clears en mass?
Because it’s pretty trivial to smash 8s.
Toxicity will always be present in team based games especially when you don’t choose who to play with (Solo-Q Arenas and Solo-Q Rbgs) and that’s completely normal. Theres just 0 incentive to play Solo-Q other than getting your conquest gear and completing the weekly quest.
What players suggest should be done and what is in the game though are way different.
There are a million options to balance this, but they don’t mean much if they aren’t implemented.
It’s clear blizzard likes casual players to play faceroll content to reach mid/end mythic raid item levels. That’s the approach they’ve taken 3 seasons in a row.
There is nothing wrong with this because it increases accessibility.
I mean the organization required and onerous mythic raid lockouts are significant barriers to even attempt mythic raid when compared to +8s. I agree with you that 8s are easier even once you get into the dungeon. But there’s a whole lot of context lost to try to compare participation in mythic raid with M+8s that have nothing to do with the relative skill expression required to succeed in each once you start pulling enemies.
Era (40), SoD (20), and Wrath (25) classic all pug fixed large raid sizes with raid ID lockouts all the time.
Clearly it’s “that” and not the massive difficulty discrepancy.
If difficulty was comparable you don’t think 20 people in the group finder wile come together for free mythic track raid gear???
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The removal of 10 man is what made me never consider mythic raiding. M+ just solidified that choice.
Which is mostly impossible for the first 2 months of a season.
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as a hunter (ranged at least) just stand on the mushroom, then it’s a non-issue!
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And tier, lots of eaerly heroic level tier came from raids.
Trinkets and weapons are far superior from Raids. And the only way to get those are Bullions or Drops. Both of whicj require raiding in some form.
So 50/50 split.
Arent the first 2-3 Mythic raid bosses equivalent to mid level heroic bosses which equates to:
So…all things considered, pretty even. Especially since mythic bosses drop mythic track, which you can only get from the vault once a week in m+
I unironically believe that M+ has kept WoW relevant the last 8 years.
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This probably lost you a lot of peoples support here, but I get the sentiment.
I think the timer in mythic+ is really the damaging thing. That and the shift of design to allow for huge pulls with aoe kills over what WoW used to be in early expansions which was a much slower planned out game. That shift is where it started to turn into a speed game, and broke a lot of what made the game interesting.
Thought planning and execution went out the window. Most mobs are just fodder to be stomped. Min maxing was way more important than cc’s and knowing fights. Just turned into a numbers game instead of a game.
Not sure Mythic did this more than LFG/LFR though. I remember it starting in WotLK. So while Mythic damaged raiding, everything else got damaged by the community, and LFG/LFR.
was it really a shift though?
we were rushing dungeons far before m+ became a thing. there were also “zerg” moments as far back as BC (ie, shattered halls). Sure, m+ took the concept and ran with it (lmao see what I did there), but I don’t think it was necessarily some huge fundamental shift in how we approach dungeons.
the days of sheep star sap moon weren’t all that great. I’m glad that’s not our gameplay, I don’t think it would have survived the test of time.
edit: oops I didn’t read your whole post before i started responding and it shows. sorry about that.
With no alternative for PVE content for anyone who has moved beyond dungeons. I didn’t say PUGing raids was impossible, just that when compared to the logistics required to run M+, there are more things to consider.
That’s just a disingenuous take on my argument. I even agreed the difficulty is heavily slanted in M+'s favor. But you’re trying to blame a single variable without having controlled for other variables that exist. Yes, the difficulty probably is a major factor for many people decided to run M+ rather than attempting to PUG mythic raid. But to act like there aren’t other people who decide not to wait for 4x the number of potentially qualified people, with stricter group comp requirements, and a situation where any one of the people who gets into your raid can use your lockout for their own purposes later, seems to be missing the mark.
Neither is free gear. Can we please stop acting like any of this content requires no skill expression to be successful?
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I think the lack of balancing and overall extreme sweatiness did a good job of killing pvp, not so much m+.
M+ was just where those of us who used to spam heroics and pvp ended up.
I think one of the biggest changes that came along pushing the “go go” is the removal of mana as a dps resource, and barely a healer resource.
One of the reasons for slower runs was regening caster and healer mana.
That isn’t really a thing anymore even for healers.
This downtime is when a lot of discussions can happen, people take a sip of their drink, etc. down time is where relationships can (not will) develop and this isn’t even strictly about WoW. Think about making friends in school, work, sports clubs, etc. it’s that “downtime” between the action that the conversations happen.
But with invincible tanks and no resource dps and virtually no resource healers there is really no reason to ever not be in combat.
This is more an observation, not saying I want to go back to that necessarily, or that players wouldn’t revolt if they did.
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I’ve said I want M+ to be harder. Raiders don’t though. Raiders always seem to just want to make M+ gear worse. This is where the constant N+ / Raider friction arises. Raiders just want their gear to be best and not need to M+ at all which would be fine if they aren’t trying to gut M+. And yet M+ players don’t want to gut raids, they just want M+ gear to be the best gear in M+.
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