It’s GD. It’s all opinion.
But you all have to be there anyway… lol
It’s not like some added requirement.
lol anyway…
Facts 10 char
Raids on heroic sure, raids on mythic, not so much.
To replicate raid vault, I suppose each difficulty of m+ can only be counted once.
+17 for the final vault slot.
I agree. But if you make M+ harder, the expectation of Mythic Raiders won’t change unless it becomes hard enough that it isn’t realistic for some mythic raiders to complete which may fracture some existing communities as you see those good enough to continue to farm M+ gear and those who aren’t. Bad mythic raiders already whine about M+ cliques, this would only make it worse.
The only true solution I can see would be that top end raid gear and top end M+ has domain exclusive scaling and otherwise your pre-BIS is easily attained.
Raid progression would not benefit from M+ and vice versa. But I don’t think that would fly with raiders - raiders like cross domain gear, they just don’t like M+ having good gear.
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Yes, and the annoyance of waiting for the 1x to get there to help summon when everyone else is expecting to be summoned is annoying lol
Most raid guilds didn’t bother with +20 week 1 in season 1. (And that’s where rewards ended.)
In m+, more in fortified, tank can solo a good deal of a boss. At this point it’s a question of will it be faster to reset or to continue.
If I’m in a pug, I’ll just continue if I can, because whatever wiped us, will probably do it again.
In tyr though, I’d be overwhelmed by all the mechanics that would otherwise target the other players.
+8s for max rewards are insanely trivial compared to raiding max rewards.
8s to me are roughly comparable to mid raid heroic bosses.
8s get aspect crests and mythic track in the vault, each require mythic raiding to get not heroic raiding.
Almost every mythic+ to raiding comparison is always to heroic raiding, not mythic, I wonder why?
On my blood DK I finished a key beating one (33%) of the dps in damage lol.
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Depending on level, yes. If we’re discussing top ends, less so.
But i agree
The portals actually can save noticeable time when you’re going to some of the Dragonflight dungeons, such as Neltharus and Brackenhide. Then if we look back through previous expansions that didn’t have Dragonriding, it could be a good 8 - 10 minutes of time savings due to how long it took to fly there with slower mounts and flight masters.
DF S2 and especially S3 threw this pattern for a loop because of us having portals within 30 seconds of slow flying to at least half the dungeons in the season.
This just isn’t a universally true statement, though. There are some dungeons every expansion that are pretty far away from the central hub/nearest teleport spot to get to. I mean even in DF S1, getting to HoV took a good 5 minutes or more to fly to from Dalaran. No, it’s not some hours-long journey by any stretch, but when some dungeons will take groups 20 minutes to complete, spending a quarter of that time just traveling to the dungeon isn’t ideal.
The portal CDs reset once you complete any M+ key. For someone who is using the portals to get around in a session running keys, the functional CD is zero, not 8 hours.
Only one item once a week though, and completely random item across the whole m+ pool. I’d say that’s balanced, as far as highest ilvl goes.
For heroic raid and lower though, m+ is superior in any point.
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In fairness to why I’m tone-deaf about this one: I’m a Warrior. 
Mythic+ did not damage pvp. As someone who once loved pvp for my end game content of choice, I can tell you what DID kill pvp- solo shuffle.
Solo shuffle-
- Split the already smaller playerbase (You now have 2s, 3s, RBG and shuffle)
- Was not created with healers in mind. It’s far more difficult to ladder as a healer due to wonky mmr and the “shuffle” aspect of the game mode. Also the gameplay is not as enjoyable for healer role when your actions have minimal impact (players LOS, don’t hit defensives, don’t peel, etc. )
- As a result, most healers don’t want to play this, so queues are long. DPS players don’t enjoy sitting in long queues, and once the queue does pop someone might rage quit when they were 0-2 so they lose points after waiting a hour. This is a reality of the game design. So they quit too.
When people asked for solo queue, I think they meant a solo 3s like skirmish. The rotating comp just doesn’t work, leads to long queues, and breeds toxicity. I’m hoping solo queue battlegrounds will breathe fresh life into pvp next expac, it’s more fun for healers, more casual friendly, and easier for new players to learn, so hopefully participation will be up.
Speaking of which, the other thing that is killing pvp is how the game is aging combined with how difficult it is for new players to learn, and how discouraging it is to even step foot in pvp for a new player (pvp ilevel should be constant in all pvp instances, so everyone is on an equal playing field. This would help with new players or participation in general.)
Also overall, pvp is neglected. It takes a very long time for tuning, and sometimes the tuning isn’t even efficient, so frustrated players quit.
So tl;dr pvp kinda killed itself + Blizzard’s lack of addressing it’s core problems, not mythic+.
From a PvP point of view Mythic+ its not the problem, the problem is that classes/specs are getting tuned and reworked around Mythic+ and not PvP but its always been like this except that back then classes/specs felt unique in what they had to offer in both PvE and PvP and Im not talking about the “add 30% more dmg to this and reduce 25% dmg to that”. The reason PvP doesn’t feel great is because of the amount of movement and micro cc that has been added based on Mythic+, I would say the only fix to this is to disable certain Micro cc and movement abilities in PvP that is making PvP so un-fun or just make classes/specs unique again.
you do realize the horror you’re describing right?
you’re literally admitting that the game is borderline unplayable for a newcomer and the only ways to overcome it is other people ‘volunteering’ to help you out or throw stuff against the wall until it sticks over an unreasonable amount of time for the normal person
this isn’t mythic raiding, these are ‘simple’ dungeons, that up to the max reward, are relatively easy - just turn your screen on for once and actually be useful (i know im asking a lot of some people here)
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You try, you fail, you progress.
Just like every other game?
What’s wrong with that?
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Guilds and friends aren’t barred from new players, cmon. My rogue friend that just started is in a guild and runs m+ with friends and is a new player. I’d wager not a lot of players come without someone pulling them in.
You don’t even need them.
And aspect crests, required for taking hero track gear from 515 to 522 and mythic track to 528.
And crafting 525 gear instead of 512 gear.
And actually getting drops from mythic raids is pretty sketchy considering you only clear early bosses a few times then extend for 3 months not getting any loot, drops or vault. And zero aspect crests.
If we armory everyone posting in this thread I’m confident virtually ever single item will be from mythic+ except the buillion cube items, but they were upgraded doing mythic+ content.