Mythic+ has probably damaged WoW worse than anything ever added

[Haugs-area-52]

@Pulemy-windseeker

Do you know why it works better for you than raiding does?

Most obvious appeals are:

1. don’t need to schedule time since it’s only five people.

2. more opportunity for individual skill expression. When you’re 20% of the group, instead of, say, 5% of the group, you matter more, proportionately

3. utility is better utilized in dungeons, which makes the experience a lot more interactive for players interested in that. (As an existing pvp’er, this is a really big deal for me)

4. similar to the less people thing, it’s easier to put a group of 5 skilled players together than a group of 20. Theoretically, you’ll spend less time waiting for that single player to master the mechanics.

5. m+ dungeon runs typically last between like 20-40 minutes. Much more convenient than 3-4 hour raid nights.

Reality is, m+ has infinite scaling difficulty and is much more accessible to the average player. It has a massive advantage over raiding in those regards

[Uncleruckus-darkspear]

@Abotou-atiesh

That kind of social mindset isn’t really going to work for the average or semi serious mythic+ player, who is mostly pugging, rarely talks to their party, will throw a friend under the bus if they aren’t rocking the best gear, spec, class, or comp meta. While we will run mythic+ as a guild every now or then, it’s no really a social activity in the same way as raiding. It’s not going to attract the same mindset in players.

Hope you didn’t hurt yourself too bad stretching like that.

[Haugs-area-52]

Abotou’s top three m+ hating degenerates I’ve seen in these forums. Guy has a massive complex about his lack of skill and insists upon blaming m+ as a result.

[Abotou-atiesh]

That is the mythic+ “community”. Don’t blame me if you don’t like what you see reflected in the mirror.

[Uncleruckus-darkspear]

@Abotou-atiesh

That is the pug “community”.

Fixed that for you.

[Abotou-atiesh]

Indeed, which is the mainstay of mythic+. But you don’t need to take my word for it. Right from the bourses mouth…

@Haugs-area-52

Most obvious appeals are:

1. don’t need to schedule time since it’s only five people.
2. more opportunity for individual skill expression. When you’re 20% of the group, instead of, say, 5% of the group, you matter more, proportionately
3. utility is better utilized in dungeons, which makes the experience a lot more interactive for players interested in that. (As an existing pvp’er, this is a really big deal for me)
4. similar to the less people thing, it’s easier to put a group of 5 skilled players together than a group of 20. Theoretically, you’ll spend less time waiting for that single player to master the mechanics.
5. m+ dungeon runs typically last between like 20-40 minutes. Much more convenient than 3-4 hour raid nights.

[Uncleruckus-darkspear]

@Abotou-atiesh

Right from the bourses mouth…

Easy there Trigger, I’m sure Haugs looks nothing like a horse.

I’m sorry you’re so upset that keys are the reason wow still exists.

[Abotou-atiesh]

I’m not upset at all. I enjoy mythic+.

The players who get serious about it, on the other hand, leave little to be desired.

[Uncleruckus-darkspear]

@Abotou-atiesh

The players who get serious about it

Clearly you’ve never pugged raiding as well. Those gatekeepers are the real toxic players.

[Chickky-azgalor]

I think you overestimate how many raiders there were and now how many folks do Mythic+ content

[Abotou-atiesh]

I’ve pugged raided. Generally I don’t have to, but it’s rarely an issue since most raid pugging happens with a guild looking for a few more players. I’ve met a lot of people raid pugging that I can easily jump into a future raid with if I want to push further that my own guild has pushed.

[Uncleruckus-darkspear]

@Abotou-atiesh

I’ve met a lot of people raid pugging that I can easily jump into

Again, you’ve confused pugging with community friends. The game mode is irrelevant when you play with people you know.

[Haugs-area-52]

@Abotou-atiesh

But you don’t need to take my word for it. Right from the bourses mouth…

Nothing I discussed there has anything to do with community. I was discussing the mechanical / logistical advantages of m+

What a weird context in which to use that quote.

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

@Abotou-atiesh

That kind of social mindset isn’t really going to work for the average or semi serious mythic+ player, who is mostly pugging, rarely talks to their party, will throw a friend under the bus if they aren’t rocking the best gear, spec, class, or comp meta. While we will run mythic+ as a guild every now or then, it’s no really a social activity in the same way as raiding. It’s not going to attract the same mindset in players.

Do you have any kind of evidence to suggest that this is common amongst average or semi-serious M+ players? Also, in what way is it any less social if you run it with the same group of people that enjoy kicking it in raid?

@Abotou-atiesh

To each their own. If your idea of fun is getting together with 10+ other players to take walks at a game mode where you can hang out, plan, and work together to over come some game challenge, find that group of friends and run raids. You can try until you succeed. There no need to get stressed about it.

So the next paragraph after trying to paint M+ players as being social savages, you then want to act like it’s just a case of being different strokes for different folks? Can you not see why you get so much pushback from M+ players when you make posts like this where you try to act like it’s impossible for M+ to be as enjoyable as raid is for you?

You did a genuinely great job articulating how raiding can be a low-stress mode that you just kick it with friends. But switching contexts to M+ doesn’t magically force the players to act hostile toward one another for not being perfect at the game. If you get similar-minded people as you have in those raids you’re describing, M+ will be just as low stress.

@Abotou-atiesh

I’ve pugged raided. Generally I don’t have to, but it’s rarely an issue since most raid pugging happens with a guild looking for a few more players. I’ve met a lot of people raid pugging that I can easily jump into a future raid with if I want to push further that my own guild has pushed.

And for the raids that aren’t run by guilds? How laid back do you think they are?

You’re basically comparing the environment of being invited by a friend of a friend to their weekly $20 buy-in Texas Hold’em poker game to sitting down at the $500 Omaha table at your local casino, and then trying to make the claim that the game of Omaha attracts nothing but the most cutthroat anti-social players that only care about taking your money.