Classic alt
Posting this thread
Posting on their 10th character
No clue what they’re talking about
Probably just does LFR
5 Likes
Raiding is still the pinnacle of PvE.
Raiding is still so important that key pushers go after cutting edge so they have the best gear.
1 Like
From personal experience, m15’s compared to heroic bosses, for casuals M+ is much harder.
It’s much harder to execute the mechanics, they’re much faster, many more random things happening, and it’s much more dependent on everyone carrying their share of the load.
Like I said earlier, for players that can do both, M+ is much faster to gear in, but it is harder to learn and execute. I know I find a +16 much more challenging than raiding.
3 Likes
Its not M+ , its Blizzard’s dumb design decisions
Raiding is the only thing that hurt raiding.
Going back to 20man hurt raiding.
Encounters designed for the Race To World first that needs 20 nerfs to be doable by normal people hurt raiding.
Drama, cliques, general human shenaniganz hurt raiding.
Having to log on at specific times multiple times a week hurt raiding.
Adulthood hurt raiding.
9 Likes
10man mythic raiding would be epic.
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Mythic Raiding is what really hurt raiding.
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It’s not really equal. M+ is easier than the equivilent raids ilvls (ie failing to time a 15 is far easier than clearing heroic), it’s also spammable 24x7 with no lockout, requires far less coordination and generally offers superior gearing.
1 Like
best fixes
-all raid items get 3 ilvl tier buffs. IE: 398 → 408, 408 → 418, 415 → 424, 424 → 433
-raid drops 2 items per 5 players making it equal in drop amount.
-Vault gets 6 ilvl higher drops in vault than current content.
This way they drop exactly the same amount of gear and ilvl to the challenge they offer M+ players
M16’s which is a thresh gives enough IO to level all gear to 411. So all your gear is the same ilvl as Heroic Ras… which in comparison is MUCH MUCH harder than an m16 and gives 415 in vault which is equal to mythic first boss
casuals also won’t be doing heroic raiding or M15’s so it doesn’t matter from their view point because they can’t do either. and honestly i know players who can’t raid (failure to do mechanics/damage required) but have over 2k io…
If they brought back progression 10-man raiding, as in highest difficulty 10-man raiding, I would absolutely raid again, even if the gear was slightly nerfed to compensate.
I’m not playing Ion’s 20-man raiding. I’m just not. He needs to get that notion out of his head. I tried it, I didn’t like it. Bring back 10-man.
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What about flex mythic instead of a set number?
If M+ kills raiding because it is more fun and accessible, then raiding deserves to die. Good riddance.
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blizzard to cowardly for something like that because they’d be worried about the 0.01% finding which set number has the best tuning.
Wouldn’t work for design reasons.
Flex doesn’t mesh with the razor thin balancing Blizz aims for when they release a new Mythic raid to entertain like… 5 guilds.
8 Likes
This is the real problem with current raiding. This right here, it’s designed to be an esport that can be streamed at the beginning of every season instead of something for the rest of the playerbase.
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I experienced raid burn-out in SL. Haven’t raided in DF and have no desire to spend countless hours progressing through raid content. M+ on the other hand is ideal for me.
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The flaw in this argument is that you are giving the specific quantifier of “clearing heroic”
Yes. Killing heroic Raszegath is very difficult…but there are much easier bosses that you kill on the way that still give loot. Loot that is higher ilvl than what you would get from doing a +15.
people like to meme that the bosses get nerfed right around the time EJ makes it to them.
they’re not wrong 
3 Likes
You can kill the first two bosses of mythic and get 424 loot as well, beyond the best possible gear from M+. Are those bosses hard enough to deserve special bonus ilvl? I don’t think so.
People who think Mythic raid doesn’t already drop better gear than it ought to are kidding themselves.
1 Like
the first two bosses drop 415s, except the ring off the first boss which is 421
oh, council drops the icon, which is 421. there are no 424s off early bosses
additionally, the ring and icon are considerd “very rare” and don’t drop that often. most of the time we get maces no one needs from council. it’s dumb, and I hope blizz drops the concept of rare loot.