Vault gives 424 tier.
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Like I said earlier, officer in a guild of mostly casual raid loggers, They do try both.
And currently theyâre hitting walls on the third heroic raid boss and around +11âs.
I really donât think M+ is easier, just easier to gear with if you can do it.
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He is referring to vault rewards which are a given.
a person can clear a m15 and get 411 in the vault. i also believe you can get to 2k io with all 15âs which means you can level all gear from M+ to 411⌠again eod drop means nothing when you can instant level it⌠rewards favor M+ over raiding for gear that is set at a certain ilvl
this is a bug that they never fixed because you are getting loot of none killed bosses because raid loot is only supposed to drop from defeated bosses. yes it is abused and yes it needs fix
it can give 424 loot. I donât know many people who it did give it to though.
but, yea, I missed that you were talking about vault
Iâm not sure it is. they changed it when they made the change for tier to drop in m+ vault.
But no itâs M+ thatâs the problem not just raids design! Lololololol.
Mythic Flex is a must if they want a larger raid audience along with changing how mythic lockout works. Max said this himself. Up to Heroic raid needs no lockout.
Look at that! Crazy how itâs possible to talk about raid without pointing blame elsewhere.
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Youâre not wrong for S1. That is also part of the reason they had valor caps to slow M+ gear upgrades. But, they are letting raiders upgrade gear in S2, which should remove that advantage.
its 424 of tier only. You need to kill the boss to have a chance at the other drops on the table. The way blizzard explained it back in SL was it was supposed to be very rare but since DF its seems to be not be as much. I managed to pull a 424 ras helm early in the tier.
Itâs actually intended, itâs only for tier loot though.
true that change did happen but just like M+ it should be giving the at defeated ilvl not at a higher ilvl than what you are doing
Personally, its 100x easier to get carried in a raid than in m+.
Individual skill plays a much bigger factor in high keys than in raiding IMO.
if one person in the party dies in high keys its pretty much blow the brez right away cause we just need the dps.
In raids, its hold it for a bit just to make sure no healer goes down, and bring him back up for burst phases.
This alone should tell you which requires more âCoordinationâ.
You also forget the part were thereâs little to no communication in m+, unlike heroic/mythic raiding where we are all on a voice call.
You get ONE chance at completing a key, and if anything goes wrong people leave and the entire 20/30/40 mins is wasted.
I think you are way too biased to have a proper opinion, respectfully.
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we will see once we get into ptr and then whatever version makes it to live. because until live gets here and we get actual use of it its hard to say what we will have⌠iâm sure it will be an experience to be sure.
you also can run M+ how many times a week you want while raiding is looted once a week. yes a bricked key from a leaver is a problem bliz needs to fix but you donât have to time it to get rewards from end or vault. so its still easier to power through
âThis has made raiding less appealing to many players, who feel they can get the same rewards more easily and with less commitment through Mythic+.â
I see no issue.
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What is about +14s as a casual that makes you not want to move up to 15/16?
I will say that I disagree with you on that. I will be short and concise in why I think that.
Before M+ it was pretty much Raid only. This led to people gearing from the raid then being done. It also led to feeder guilds. These were guilds where the raid group would hit either a difficulty wall or boss wall. The better players would move onto a better progressing guild. So you had these guilds perpetually hitting walls, and their better players would leave them to a different guild. In turn the feeder guilds would just be gearing their better players to have them leave the guild.
Also you saw more burnout than now. As the patch went on, fewer and fewer people ran the raid. This is because they already ran it on one or two chars, a bunch and geared them. And running the same raid every week for no rewards is not appealing. So the raiding population would drop off and those guilds stuck at certain points or difficulties, couldnt get further, due to not being able to find more players.
M+ gives players more things to do. It also, through gearing, gives those guilds getting hard stuck, a way to improve their raidâs gear, to help push past a point. It keeps more of the raiding population engaged, and also reduces burnout.
By and large, I feel M+ has only improved the raiding scene.
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Thatâs usually where the wall is.
Anything higher than that probably requires much more effort from each player and casuals (people who play more for the fun and less to be sweaty) maybe donât deem it worth it to stress that much.
Just a guess
Indeed, Iâd go as far as saying getting carried in a raid is the norm. The vast majority of raid groups have at least one grey parser. This is just math and data. Your CE guild might not but most raiders are carrying at least one bad player - Carries are built into the system.
It isnât so eith M+. Top players CAN carry but thereâs usually a gold exchange and itâs sort of frowned upon (unlike raid carries).
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Youâre not wrong, but why is there 100s of threads on why m+ is bad?
When raiding is in the current state that its at?
Itâs a once a week thing, gotta go up against your entire raid team for loot.
M+ just seems like the much better option all around, WoW raiding is outdated.
Well, and often now tanks randomly fall over in keys all the time now with all the tank nerfs they did.
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Raiding isnât outdated or it wouldnât have been around since the start. M+ just needs to be more balanced with the other pve content to where its not being a heavy belt in a light belt arena.