if you take for example a player with 2.4k io and does m16’s they can have all gear to 415 at anytime they want as long as they have the valor. vault gives 415 ilvl for m16. M16 i was doing at 395 ilvl on my healer. that same healer struggles in heroic raiding to keep a raid group up. M+ is not harder. Its drops better gear overall for difficulty.
The only time M+ is harder is when your hard pushing 20+ and forcing teh difficulty higher for your own gain of prestige over doing it for rewards.
They don’t have to, but it’s much much slower if they don’t.
And I think it’s easier to get casual players through a heroic raid kill than a +15. Like I said earlier, on average casual players really don’t like M+.
I play with a guild and I’m not selfish so I won’t bring my guild down like that. Thanks though.
If your guild treats you like replaceable cogs in a machine, then get a guild that treats you like a human being. Also your fault.
I think you missed the point. I treat the rest of my guild like human beings and I would not stop their progression because of my own selfishness.
Spare me the for the team greater good routine. If that’s the case the content is overtuned. Gg.
You’re smoking the copium hard kiddo. Mythic raiding sucks, you are just addicted to the dopamine.
Yeah thanks for sliding this in and proving exactly my point. This is just another meme thread. Cmon.
You hate M+ so you wrote some sensationalism M+ opinion piece.
Have a problem with raid? Point the finger at raid because pointing it at M+ is a logical fallacy. I have problems with raid, but I can talk about them without coming after M+.
Your thread is uninspired and weak. Maybe even wrote by AI like someone suggested. Grow up, stop cluttering the forum and wasting people’s time.
I’m loving the fact that M+ is giving better gear for a half hour commitment a couple times a week.
There are multiple ways to look at this scenario.
M+ healing is not the same as raid healing. You are focused on keeping 5 people alive vs 10-30, which often requires different abilities and playstyles.
Raids typically have 3+ healers so if the raid is dying it is rarely 1 healer’s fault. Even when looking at healing performance in a raid you have to take into account heal snipping and cooldown usage.
It is much easier to overcome the M+ challenge with player skill vs. actual DPS checks in raid so gear is not as important overall. For unskilled players, M+ can be much harder because they have fewer people to pick up for their shortcomings.
It is very difficult to make a direct comparison in content difficulty.
So are we going to just ignore the rest of the post or what? A mythic Eranog ring is most likely going to STILL be BiS for every single dps that can reasonably proc it for all of next season because of how poorly rings scale in IL that the proc is going to outweigh 26 IL of secondaries.
Grieftorch is above and beyond most other trinkets. The healer broodkeeper trinket is better than any other statstick available in raw hps/survivability.
If this was literally any other season you’d have a potential point, but raiding simply has access to better items on average and any turbo stinkers (only a crit/vers belt as haste/mastery spec) can be crafted in BiS stats to avoid having to touch m+.
Classes have effectively 9 slots hard locked in right now with 4 tier (raiders get a month and a half early by the way) and 5 crafted pieces. The remaining slots are usually trinkets (almost always in raid), jewelry (lariat and eranog/broodkeeper rings say hi again), or low stat budget slots that literally do not matter like cloak/wrists.
its true the don’t have to. but to be relevant for the raid and keep progression as smooth as possible its extremely required to do.
if your going to compare for casuals that would be lfr vs m2’s-5’s not m15’s
Nonsense, I have an opinion on the game.
I simply look at it like it is. As one poster eloquently put it
Some people will admit it and others won’t but this is true.
M+ is harder in that it’s a much larger time investment. There’s not that much learning your spec compared to learning every pull in every dungeon for every affix for every route and group make up.
It’s much harder to carry people in M+.
For people who put in the time to do both well it’s easier to gear up in M+, but getting to that point in M+ requires more work and skill.
so how much we wanna bet that the OP is an AI?
FWIW we still do this.
OP - I agree that m+ has pulled player attention away from raiding. I just disagree in that I don’t think that’s necessarily bad.
compared to the individual non-officer raider? sure. compared to the people responsible for organizing and recruiting? lmao not only no but he double hockey sticks no.
recruiting for a mythic raid can be a near part time unpaid job.
at the end of the day though trying to directly compare m+ and raiding is problematic and doesn’t really work.
Yeah you’re probably the same person.
It’s a sensationalist take by someone I ignored (the only person I have ignored actually, for now) because they’re so ridiculous.
It’s also a gross misrepresentation of what’s actually true.
Like I said keep this discussion civil! I am sorry you’re so angry!
Golly, it’s almost as if it’s easier to coordinate 5 people vs 20?
It’s important to remember that it’s okay for one part of the game to be diminished relative to other aspects if it makes the game more fun. Let’s just keep that in mind - raiding is not the end-all be-all, it is simply a component of the game.
And now we reach the end of your post and you have not made a single argument for why it is better for the overall health of the game, again this being the most important goal, for why M+ should be made less fun.
You seem to have made some sort of logical fallacy that what is best for raiding is best for the game when that simply is not the case.
Then talk about raid instead of M+. You have a problem with raid and are pointing a finger at M+.
Instead of saying “how do I make raid better?” You’re saying “M+ is wreaking havoc on raid we must take action!”
It’s sensationalism and how the media gets attention from people. Just focus on your problem, raid. Then we can have a civil discussion. Your entire opinion piece is uncivil.