Ok. Look at the number of people who are completing +20s that are also mythic raiders. There is a very high correlation.
+20s are pretty much not approachable for players that are not already playing at the mythic raid levels.
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Raiding has hurt raiding. Not mythic+.
If you think there is no teamwork in M+, youâre only proving that you are bad at keys.
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Mind expanding your reasoning on this?
sorry, but iâll have to disagree with you based on one specific fact- raiders have to run m+ to gear up and raid. anyone that disagrees with that statement is lying to themselves.
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This. Wholeheartedly this.
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Nope. I agree. Progression raiders have to do M+ to gear faster. But that is because of the compounding effects of 2 complimentary loot systems vs each not being an end-game system.
I think the new 10.1 loot system will even things out a bit by giving raiders the ability to upgrade gear.
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Iâve said it before in another thread:
"M+ is good because it is easy to pick up, its challenging in the higher bracket, it is more dynamic overall because you have to deal with multiple different dungeons and all the boss AND trash mechanics that come with it.
Meanwhile in raiding you have the boss that you can very well get stuck on with little to no reward because somebody keeps screwing up - Trash is largely irrelevant (and drops high level mythic BoEs) and while overall I feel more difficult, not anywhere near as readily rewarding for my time. If a key goes south I can always leave and go to another - Canât do that in a raid. Iâm stuck with a lockout."
One of the other reasons raiding has destroyed raiding, is raiders themselves. Iâve got a friend that is more or less quitting the game now because the guild she was in pooped the bed on Mythic Broodkeeper and broke apart, and in the process screwed her parses doing it. Now she canât join another guild thatâs anywhere near Broodkeeper and she has 0 desire to try again with a smaller guild - so this whole entire season for her was wasted because of other people. Nothing like this happens in a keystone - You screw it, and you can do another one later or try again with other people without much investment or time spent.
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Itâs not so much that m+ hurt raiding, itâs that raiding just has not kept up at all in terms of time investment, accessibility, and reward structure.
Itâs just so much easier to justify spending time doing m+ where I can get in and out of a group extremely quickly and get a better chance at gear. Its also way easier to just start a mythic plus group than it is to start a raid group.
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I donât think raid quality has declined necessarily, I skipped SL but enjoyed the ones in Legion, BFA and current. NâZoth in particular was really fun and different.
I donât really know if M+ has negative effects on raiding except that itâs just easier to do because of group size and whatnot. I doubt they would ever allow flex down to a 5 person team, that would make it feel less epic. Better rewards for raiding would be my only thought.
Pretending the inverse isnât more true is incredibly disengious. How many BiS raid pieces come from m+? That number is guaranteed to be less than the reverse because of items like trinkets, BOTH rings, and literally anything off the last 2 since they are higher IL. If you are a hunter and not killing Raz every week you arenât competing with anyone and is the entire reason that weapon is getting gutted next week.
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Raiding was and is dying because itâs antiquated and times change. The player base aged and moved on. It doesnât really matter how much Elitest Jerk Ion tries to prop it up. This is just his last ditch attempt before the Microsoft buyout and his inevitable replacement.
The only question is how many subs the game bleeds before that happens.
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Crafting helps a lot too, but I do wish mythic bosses fragment drops were much higher since they are on a weekly lockout while m+ isnât.
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Yet another ridiculous thread spreading hate towards M+ by a 4 post forum alt.
Can we go to BNet accounts please? This forum is exhausting sometimes.
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Next Season:
M+ 16 = Aspect Crest
Mythic = Aspect CrestâŚ
I wonder how many guilds doing heroic will gear with Mythic equivalent and just destroy heroicâŚthen thereâs not anything else to progress for the guilds with less that 20 players⌠Raiding was hurt the moment that Blizzard created a different set of rules for the highest difficulty
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one specific weapon- what about everything else? itâs simply a fact that anyone who actually cares about raiding will run m+ for the gear, whether itâs the actual drops or the upgradable ease.
Sounds like the way raiding is being handled is the problem.
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Raiding died the moment the token was introduced, and the entire game became transactional instead of cooperative.
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Thatâs a good point. I know there is a weekly fragment cap, so I hope it is designed so that raiders can hit it in 1 full clear and not be forced into M+ or open-world activities.
Youâll be fine. This is a post that is actually about the game unlike most the forums which is just meme posts or thinly veiled politics. I donât hate Mythic+ I play it a bunch as well, I have to as a raider after all.
Raiders arenât forced to do anything. Your lack of self control isnât anyone elseâs problem.
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