I’ve been in many games where that is the meta. Happens to me more when I solo queue into a full pug. When I solo queue into a premade, we rarely farm graveyard just run flag and control mid. When I try to get on a server premade, it would been better to solo queue because we are no better then a pug do to never being able to build a good composition. The one thing I really hate is people giving up when there was a chance to win, wither it was AV or WsG, if your going to throw the match don’t even queue,
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I agree with your options, but if you committed a good amount of time to ranking for what ever rank you want to cut off, option 3 isn’t a option or one that might every happen. If I was activision / blizzard at this point would say no. They can’t reproduce old content like EQ does where there locked content.
What advantage would you give to premades over pugs in order to incentivize them existing?
If we separate the queues, do you increase premade bonus honor or do you decrease pug bonus honor?
It is obviously impossible for the pug to win, but if you separate the queues you will massively decrease premade honor/hour. In order for premades to still exist after that “fix” you will need to either increase the bonus honor in the premade queue or decrease bonus honor in the pug queue.
The problem is that, as an MMORPG, WoW Classic is supposed to incentivize grouping up, communicating and planning. If you separate premades for pugs you need to adjust the bonus honor in order to keep premade honor/hour bigger than pug honor/hour, otherwise there is no reward for grouping up and premades will stop existing.
Before when they had separate queues both sides got honor about the same rate, as pug vs. pug and premade vs. premade had both sides having longer more quality matches. Both team formats would still use consumables, probably more on the premade teams. As it stands now it is premade vs. pug and premade wanting no changes because they can farm the pug team for easy honor. Seems to me the newer generation of players want incentives or give me now attitude when it comes to gaming.
I think the real problem is that there’s actual communication with premades, and everyone has a specific thing they’re doing (Designated FC, base defense, FC defense, etc) where as in pugs, nobody wants to defend and everyone wants to fight in the middle. Ask around trade about premades and I’m sure you’ll find a group. I agree that it sucks getting paired with a premade team, but that’s the nature of the game my guy.
I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying.
Premades NEED more honor/hour in order to exist in Classic. And even if they could exist without that incentive, Classic is an MMORPG and as such should reward grouping up with better overall results. I am asking what your proposal to give premades more honor/hour is if the queues get separated. I’m struggling to think of good options.
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Pug vs. pug and premade vs. premade would earn about the same amount of honor with premade making a little more because they will not always face quality premade teams. Pug matches can take 45 + minutes to play out also making premade teams gain honor faster. Premade only want to have the bonus honor because now they won’t be able to graveyard camp the pug teams for a major boost.
There wasn’t a problem 15 years ago nor 8 years ago when I last played retail, it just seems the younger generation want more for their time and effort. Well I am old and my limited amount of time left in the real world should be worth more in the game world. I shouldn’t be punished because no one on my server in my playtime’s really PvPs. I shouldn’t be punished because my server even in prime time can’t field a premade. But apparently the premade crowd want me punished which already happens as I lose my way to exalted. I average 50 games a day with a 17% win rate. So tell me who is more demoralized yet continues to play even though the odds are stacked against them.
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I don’t premake WSG, and I am well-aware that the fabric of the game cannot remain intact if I am rewarded for solo play as much as rankers are for their premades. Under your proposal premades would simply end, and, according to game theory, REALLY quickly. The way of MMORPGs is that you achieve more by grouping up, and just as you can’t solo BWL you can’t solo play your way to rank 13. Which is fine, really. Not everything is for everyone. I am not going for exalted at WSG, just as I didn’t in Vanilla and I’m fine with it.
I am in favor of a premade vs premade queue, as long as premaking your WSG is still inherently more rewarding than soloing. I agree that the difference shouldn’t be as stark as it is right now, but if that difference disappears the game stops being an MMORPG really quickly.
Actually the analogy is nearly perfect, a more apt analogy might be that premades fighting pugs is the equivalent of the chicago bulls rolling to a random YMCA and playing against the random people there.
Then somehow pretending it was a fair match.
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How is pug play not social? We try to work as a team against stacked odds sometimes quitting before we try, sometimes doing better then we expected? Premade have never ended under the changes that people have been asking and we have 15 years of gaming data to prove that, hence retail. Premade will gear up faster then pug play, has always been that way.
Problem is CRBG destroy the immersion that your asking. I group, I chat, I strategist, I win and I lose. Get rid of CRBG and I bet you half the issues go away for all involved in all the current and future battlegrounds. Only people that get hurt by that are the faction dominated servers.
No one is pretending it was a fair match.
It would be like like the YMCA team signing up with full knowledge that the Bulls could be matched against them…and then upset when they get matched against the Bulls.
Correct and there’s a reason why that isn’t the way matching is done.
Why blizzard thought it was acceptable in WoW is a mystery, in WC3 they realized how stupid it was to match premades with pugs.
Except here in Vanilla that is exactly the way matching was done…and it is exactly what everyone signed up for.
Its not good, but it wasn’t a secret. And when you queue up, you agree to it.
And for whatever reason the situation in vanilla wasn’t as bad as it is now.
So just like with AV blizzard needs to update the match making for WSG(and AB) to keep up with the times.
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They did keep up with the times. In future versions of the games.
The whole point of Classic is to go back in time, for the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
Well no just like they adjusted AV queueing in classic to keep up with modern trends they need to do the same for WSG and AB as well.
They fixed an exploit in the AV queuing system. That is apples/oranges to people queuing up for WSG/AB completely as intended.
It wasn’t an exploit, it was the way the queueing system always worked.
So just like with AV being updated to modern standards in classic so should WSG and AB.
Either premades fighting pugs is acceptable or it’s not.
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