this thread is pretty hyperbolic
you can win against a premade - if you play a hybrid class and don’t heal - you’re part of the problem
if we are all having a “different experience” why are you the only one saying this crap about it being the same, when different sources say otherwise?
Because the forums are a self-selective group of people looking to complain.
im not here to complain, i love some of the conversations that happen. i usually only jump in when someone say something crazy. to make a blanket statement about how it was in vanilla is wrong and crazy.
You’re not here to complain. But the people here complaining about premades stomping pugs are here to complain.
But when there is a blanket statement of “this is not vanilla” it is fine. But when someone has a blanket statement of “yes, this is vanilla”…it is suddenly wrong and crazy?
yes, you are a anomaly for not only 1 but two RANK 14!! in vanilla is not normal! you have to see that!
While true, it was not as common and I think that is the source of the problem.
HOWEVER there is a solution…
Solo Q players have an opportunity to now GEAR UP in PVE, a much more enjoyable way to gear up.
Additionally this is a very good time for Horde players who want to PVP but don’t like the Q’s to Re-roll alliance and join an Alliance PVE guild to gear up for PVP.
IF solo players did this their play experience would improve, AND it would force the pre-mades to do battle basically VS no one but themselves.
I may have been an anomaly for being part of the group that was farming others, but I most certainly was on the receiving end of it when solo queuing…which is why i vary rarely solo queued.
Pug farming was the path of best honor back then just as it is now. And asking for anything else is just not the Vanilla experience. Its not a fun experience, but it is the authentic one.
I think I agree, that people should not really be engaging with a system that actively feels is unfun. Nothing that comes from PvP is good enough to be worth the time invested…especially the later the game goes.
Going up against premades as a pug is in fact very classic, but, it was no where near as bad back in the day as it is now. You were more likely to be put up against another pug back in those days and would occasionally run into the premade but now adays its almost guaranteed you’re facing a team.
Bingo, and I don’t think that most of these players understand just how less an advantage the PVP gear has once you reach AQ…
At that point the Epic PVP gear is only on par and no longer a massive advantage.
Right now is the time for players to PVE and get some truly strong stuff, but for whatever reason they can justify a massive PVP investment while saying “Raid is too much”…
LOL WUT?
premade vs. pug gets old fast. both ways.
How about joining a premade yourself and learn to PVP along the way? It’s way more fun being in a team. You’ll just have to drop the RET build though as they are useless in group PVP
He might have the same issue we do on my server. Not enough interest at all times of the day to form one up that can do anything better then had we all just solo queue or landed on a potential premade filler spot. Eventually they do separate the queues in the game’s history, something people don’t want because its better to farm a pug and gain mass amounts of honor vs. playing a team that is going to cost them time, money and especially honor.
I had a pot belly pig until you killed him and ate him for dinner. I was sad. Now I rub your tummy to feel closer to my friend. 
Remove solo Q from WSG/AB. Make those the competitive / ‘‘arena’’ PvP of Classic.
Make AV solo Q only.
Only allow honor to be gained from world pvp / WSG / AB for R12-14.
Problem fixed. People will complain at first but will be short lived since they won’t even be able to Q for it in the first place.
I don’t pvp.
I don’t think you know me.
I’ve never been in a premade that farms a pug. You get in, you get your 3 caps, and you get back in queue.
I 100% agree with this, it’s impossible for the pug to win. Not only are you going up against premades, they’re also using Faps and Sapper charges left right and center.
Premade vs Premade
Pug vs Pug
Problem solved
I also agree with not always having 9 other players ready to go at all times when you want to PVP, yeah, I get its an MMO and it’s designed to be with friends - but not everyone has 10 friends who play this game, 10 friends online at the exact same time, 10 guildmates who want to PVP at the same time, etc.
If I want to log in for a game or two of WSG before bed I can’t even do it without getting frustrated and logging off after 1 because we get stomped by a group of premades.
You have 3 basic options with how HPH min-maxed things are now as compared to pre-CRBG Vanilla.
1: Get your own premade as suggested.
If you’re unable to find one on your server and unwilling to transfer, see below
2: Ghost when faced with a premade and deny them the HK farming they crave.
3: Realize that PvP is s**t in Classic and drop out until TBC.