I mean, i guess we can agree to disagree.
But i feel like with how accessible group content is nowadays compared to like bc and vanilla(i barely dipped into 10 man kara and didn’t clear for ex) especially to someone like me who generally stays guildless, that what i do would fall into the scope of casual if only barely so
Some care some not, but that don’t mean hes not what he say it is.
By your logic im not a casual either but i got some 619 and working and grinding runed crest via delves +8 for upgrading some 610 i got.
That was my expectation going in. Fair enough. 
Yep, if you’re at an ilevel 619 already I probably wouldn’t consider you a casual either. I would expect you to be at 606ish if you played a lot hours. I’m currently in the 580s on my main character. Gear ilevel is not my primary concern, as a casual.
But ultimately, my measuring stick for what a casual is is how much effort a player is willing to put in and how much difficulty/frustration they’re willing to overcome, and with a limited skill level, for a reward from a video game, and how they treat other human beings in said video game (polite vs toxic).
How serious they take the game, versus realizing it’s just a video game and not getting caught up in it overly.
Curious to hear your opinion on 9-11s. Also you don’t seem geared from delves so also curious if play them on an alt?
I’ve seen you comment on increasing the difficulty of delves to match the rewards, yet you don’t seem to have a mastery of the current delve structure (no zekvir/tier9+), so not sure why you think they need to be harder… I think delves are fine where they are. They provide a challenging enough environment for more casual players and they have no effect on mythic+ or raiding. MANY players struggle to get through 8s at the moment. Just because you’ve gotten through a few of them doesn’t mean they aren’t tricky.
I think what people aren’t considering is pre-m+ levels. 1-4 should be equivalent to normal 5- 8 Heroic then 9+ scaling Mythic + level.
I can’t speak for grizzle but i can for myself.
Have i done tier 9 or 10? No, not because im incapable, but because im on farm mode to get into heroic raid(started 2 weeks late)
Currently delves are tuned as such that players like me on a fresh toon with no multi week stacked coffers can start clearing 8s day 2 or 3 after dinging.
Now you might say that “casuals struggle with 8’s right now”, but i would counter by saying we are not even halfway through week 3 of the season. As i have mentioned a few times blizz have designed delves to be solo pillar content. It is by no means bad that casuals can clear 8’s, but it should take time and gear progression. 9-11 being challenge mode and an end of season capstone for solo play.
With that in mind i do think delves should have increased frequency of opportunity for hero track gear, but also be harder so there is progression.
If anything Delves shows how bad M+ is , players never really cared about hte social aspect of grouping , meeting new ppl and making buddies in an M+ . It all about the loot and moment a solo able way emerged , its rage city.
However I haven’t seen many raiders complaining about , maybe because they actually hate M+ and wanted an alternative 
, however putting your suggestion in action would make it interesting to see if it effects raiders as well
I think the reason it hasn’t effected raider sentiment is because alot of pug raiders and guilds use normal raid as a stepping stone for heroic, and heroic clears get you better gear overall than t8 delves.
That being said, i have personally outgeared normal raid in 1 week 2 days of only doing delves and timewalk black temple…thats just a tad silly.
I mean you’re dying in 8s so it has to be somewhat of a challenge.
Also, you’re limited to how much gear you can get per week. Releasing delves early was probably a misstep by Blizzard which is why it feels like they’re very rewarding.
You are also forgetting that obtaining gear is only half the battle. Crest drops in delves are abysmal and not a very good way to obtain them to actually upgrade your gear. Using only delves you’d have to do hundreds of delves (tier 8+) over the course of season 1 to upgrade anything past veteran. You might get champion gear, but if you can’t upgrade it, it’s still basically veteran. The Runed Crests are meant to be obtained over time. That sounds like progression if you ask me.
All my recent deaths have been from silly interactions or me being distracted by my wife. The mobs themselves have not been difficult.
I have mentioned before i think crest aquisition and hero gear rates(probably from treasure maps) should be increased so gearing is faster on the back end, but it is currently way too fast and easy to get to reliably clearing 8’s.
Like i said in my previous post, ive gotten to ilvl 600 in 1 week 2 days. The only content ive done is delves and tw black temple.
Getting to this ilvl would have made sense if i had run 8-10 heroics on top of doing delves, but that isn’t the case. I just bum rushed 7’s and 8’s a little bit later off of 560 ilvl.
The game should reward coordination, the game creators dictate the game’s reward and gratification system and he’s just voicing his opinion, he’s not the arbiter
I like delves, im surprised i do, however im also incredibly happy that the gear level is lower than mythic or raiding as those are challenges and end game content which require more time and effort
I’m really glad youre a grown up with your morning cup of joe and 15 kids but some of us want to take the time to take the game a bit more seriously and if delves, which are almost complete solo content, contend with raid/mythic gear there wouldnt be a material need to do raid/m+. This is a social game so achievements in gear is reflective of how you compare with others. There wouldnt be a competitive reason to do mythic or raid despite them taking more resources time and commitment.
Not sure why, but the thread title made me expect to see some sort of variety show in here. I’m not bummed at all. OK a little.
a lot.
Delves are in a good place rn ilvl wise but i do like to see the incentives of doing anything past an 8, even if its just fluff. Theyre a great way to gear alts for m+/raid. The cosmetics you get are neat. And sometimes u get lucky and get one of those maps which guarantees hero gear.
Of course.
Except that literally doesn’t matter. You’ve gotten to 600 (which is only mid-veteran), and now go where? Without running some other form of content you’re going to be stuck between 600 and 610 for a long while if you’re only running delves.
If you were able to get to 623 that quickly then maybe we’d have an issue. Delves to me feel like the opposite of Mythic+. You gain gear quickly while receiving no crests (on top of gear being not BIS/trinkets are garbage), whereas Mythic+ you’re swimming in crests if you farm, but a specific piece of gear might allude you for a few runs.
I’ve played a lot since TWW released and I am 609. 9 Ilvls above you and I’ve been playing a lot. I’ve done 1 mythic+ run and no raiding. Sure you’ll get to 600 quickly, but delves really start to slow down after that.
IMO casuals would not have shown up for TWW if they didn’t have it at release.
The only misstep is that it makes low level m+ irrelevant. Hopefully blizz changes that because no one is going to invite you to a 6 if you dont have rating
So the only reason to play the game is for “material need”? You expect everybody else to agree and play that exact same way?
I thought the reason you were playing the game was because “but some of us want to take the time to take the game a bit more seriously” (which I translate as ‘more hardcore than casual’)?
All roads can lead to Rome you know. You don’t need to gatekeep and harm others recreational fun for your own personal benefit. Just do you, and leave the rest of us alone.
And if gear is the only reason you’re playing the game, then so be it. But don’t force that on others. For some, gear is just a means to an end of being able to play the rest of the game well, and not just the game itself. Its supposed to be a MMO, not a end-game gearing machine.
Can’t mythic/raid players compete with each other for the ‘best’ gear, and leave the rest of us alone? Wouldn’t that be the competition, who’s the best raider and/or who’s the best mythic plus gamer? Don’t they actually have casting of those kind of competitive events on the Internet already?
Maybe have the Restored Coffer Keys work for other types of content for those who don’t want to do Delves. I’m glad others enjoy them, but as a healer main, it’s boring and I really don’t want to have to do them at all… but them being the fastest and easiest option for getting normal/heroic level gear forces us to do them if we want to stay ahead.
Other than what you literally just stated. If you want to raid, then raid. If you want to push keys, push keys. Rating in PvP. There are achievements and other items/titles/etc. for being very good at each of these parts of the game. If you have the time to dedicate to doing those, then great. Most people probably don’t and delves are (finally) an option for the more casual (or socially anxious) audience, where the rewards somewhat compete with other end game avenues.