Modern Death Knight character customizations

Classes Death Knight
161

Clearly you failed to read the following as I clearly provided actual warcraft lore based evidence which makes it very clear that Forsaken is actually used as a racial identifier in warcraft as well as it also being an identifier used for a faction.
LORE says I am right about it being a Race and you’re wrong with your abrupt statements which lack obviously lack any evidence to back them up because the actual lore proves that you’re wrong yet again and yet you still respond with responses that are a waste of time and forum space because they only reiterate something which has been shown to be incorrect through lore based evidence. It doesn’t matter how many times try to stuff a square peg in a round hole it doesn’t fit because it the wrong peg and honestly it is like you trying to smash that square peg over and over thinking that at some point it might actually fit in that round hole.
Accept you’re wrong and learn from it then move on maybe by taking some time to go read some of the actual warcraft lore that is derived outside the game.

Okay it’s back to the factual and established lore we go to prove my point…

Darkfallen is a race that is established now as part of the LORE all of which are undead elves whose bodies are all magically resistant to decay as a result of the process in which they are created this is the aspect which identifies them as Darkfallen. This is the identifier that separates what is classified as Darkfallen versus those that aren’t i.e. not all undead elves are Darkfallen however, all Darkfallen are Undead Elves which obtain a magical resistance to the decay which is associated with other undead.
So this means that the only instances currently they we have undead that are part of the Darkfallen race is the following three only:

  1. The Dark Rangers of the Forsaken

  2. The Vampiric San’layn of the Scourge

  3. Death Knights of the Ebon Blade

In terms of some lore which sets this in stone we can use the following that is outlined within the World of Warcraft: Sylvanus Novel

  • On Page 184. it mentions that Dark Rangers of the forsaken, Vampiric San’layn of the Scourge and those Death Knights of the Ebon Blade who are risen elves are all instances of the undead race called Darkfallen. (Yes this book says Darkfallen is a race and it further goes on to identify those who are members of this race)
  • On Page 192. It explains the distinction and identifies why these previously listed as members of the Darkfallen race and what it is that makes them part of the Darkfallen race. It explains how Dark rangers’ bodies, are like those of death knights’, as in each case they are magically resistant to decay of the undead which is a result of the of the methods used during the process in which they are raised as an undead.

Once again sorry but lore clarifies the fact the Nightfallen as both a faction and a RACE so yet again we have this instance where you are posting statements that have one small aspect that is correct even though you have yet to provide any actual lore to backup your claims. You then go on to make additional statements that are grossly incorrect and try to pass them off as if they are correct all the while providing zero actual evidence to backup what your saying.
Either way this is a case where you quite clearly don’t know the information that has been established as part of the warcraft lore. Instead it is like you’re making bold statements that you provide zero evidence to backup your own glorified assumptions you are proclaiming. I am wondering if it is some type of attempt to make yourself falsely appear like you are some lore knowledge connoisseur to those on the forums who don’t know better.

Now where is the lore that makes me right and your statements incorrect it is clearly outlined in the Warcraft Wiki page for the Nightfallen and provides the various reasons why it is considered a Race there is another separate page that is used to discuss Nightfallen as a faction. So once again the correct answer is Nightfallen is actually both a race and a faction that has been established as part of the actual lore you know the stuff that is actually correct and not a glorified assumption that is based on my own perspective which is what you seem to do quite often. The Lore can’t be argued with as it is the established facts…

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Nightfallen

I could go on to do this for so many other situations to proof my point and even include further facts that have been established as part of the lore from sources that are external to the actual game such as warcraft novels, books and various other certified sources that equate to it becoming part of the warcraft lore. However, I think I have made my point that I can backup what I am saying with evidence from the actual lore itself you on the other hand are still yet to actually provide any lore to backup the false statements or the abrupt one liners you respond with trying to make it look like you are right and know what you’re talking about when clearly you don’t and aren’t able to backup the incorrect responses that you time and again repeat over and over.

162

Again, using the lore improperly doesn’t make you right.

The forsaken are used as a race for gameplay, but in terms of actual lore it’s a faction that the horde tolerate. The lore does not say that you are right. This is like a flat earther saying the math proves earth is flat yet they can’t even convert meters to kilometers. Improper use of something doesn’t make you right.

Darkfallen is not a race lol. It’s term is used like you would use the term mammal. Different races of undead elves fall under this umbrella. Just because a blood elf and a night elf get raised into undeath doesn’t make them into the same race. It’s an undead blood elf as a race and an undead night elf as a race.

And no, the Nightfallen aren’t a race. You can’t just inject race into something where it isn’t. The race is the Nightborne and the faction was the Nightfallen. They became an allied race… Do you know what they are called? THE NIGHTBORNE!

163

Maybe you should revisit this one more time…take the time to look at what is actually listed under the RACE sections for various key characters such as Sylvanas Windrunner or Dark Ranger Velonara as well as NPC’s such as the Darkfallen Deathblade as well as various others on the site Warcraft.wiki.gg

For Example Sylvanas has the following her race…
Race(s) Darkfallen / Banshee

Dark Ranger Velonara has
Race(s) Darkfallen, formerly high elf (Humanoid)

Darkfallen Deathblade has
Race Darkfallen (Humanoid)

You starting to see the glaring obvious point here that you clearly lack the comprehension skills to understand… RACE = DARKFALLEN once again this is fully established in the lore end of discussion you are flat out wrong just stop trying you make yourself look more foolish every single time.

Just like the Darkfallen you should take the time to go look up more about the Nightfallen… Especially some of the key named ones such as Stalriss Dawnrunner, Thaedris Feathersong, or Arcanist Naran there are so many others but the point is that all of these NPCs have the following for their RACE

Race Nightfallen (Humanoid)

While on the other hand we have a clear separation and distinction between those that are of the RACE Nightfallen vs those who are Nightborne. Examples for clarity are:

First Arcanist Thalyssra - Race Nightborne (Humanoid)
Chief Telemancer Oculeth - Race Nightborne (Humanoid)

I could go on but I won’t because I proved my point stop trying to make it look like you know what you’re talking about because clearly you don’t and just need to stop because you’re just hurting yourself by making yourself look stupid.

Oh the allied race were always Nightborne as the race Nightfallen was an NPC aspect only. In terms of the Nightfallen Faction it contains the following races as part of it’s faction group…and take the time to note the fact that Nightborne, Nightfallen, Withered and Nightborne Constructs are all identified clearly as a RACE in their own right as being members of the Nightfallen faction…

Faction Race(s)
Nightborne
Nightfallen
Withered
Nightborne construct

Once again I am right and proved my point please stop because you seriously are making yourself look worse every single time.

164

Maybe you shouldnt blindly follow a wiki that can just be changed by anyone.

Yes, that you are following a wiki. Darkfallen is not a race.

No its not.

The Nightfallen is a faction, its not a race. “The Nightfallen are a faction of eciled NIGHTBORNE” this is like pulling teeth.

NO YOU HAVENT… sorry but you just havent. If you played through Suramar you would know this. They are Nightborne.

Wrong. Nightfallen were what… A FACTION of NIGHTBORNE.

You arent

You havent.

Im not the one claiming victory when you havent proven anything at all. You are wrong. Darkfallen isnt a race, Nightfallen isnt a race. You can either move on or keep being wrong.

165

Unless the lore explicitly disambiguates its use of each term, its using both terms for each isn’t necessarily a matter of either being correct.

Note also that the term “race” has always been and remains ambiguous, defining itself around cultural, linguistic, or phenotypical lines.

  • (In nebulous terms of “race”, take someone who was raised in and centers much of their identity around the unique customs and cultural norms on Milan to the point they’d feel vaguely at odds with or foreign among even the customs of Rome. Are they Milanese, Italian, Latinate, Northern Mediterranean, European, White/Brown, or Homosapien? Which is their “race”?)

Similarly, there’s just the matter of negligent interchangeability, synecdoche, and other liberties taken in writing.

  • That the lore interchangeability might interchangeably call, say, a bardiche an axe, sword, poleaxe, or polearm does not make it so, but some things obviously are more excusable than others for their perceived ambiguity.
  • Similarly, if the only group(s) among the undead to which another nation would ever send delegates are those who are the majority unified faction therein, the Forsaken are for all political intents and purposes the undead race.

That does not, however, replace a need for consistency. If the Forsaken, as the largest faction of free and (mostly to wholly) free-thinking undead, are a separate “race”, so would, before and into the First War, the humans of Stormwind and the humans of Lordaeron be separate “races”. Their interests were not well aligned, their cultures were highly distinct, and their politics could even put them at odds.

Obviously, there is some need to take liberties in adding new terms under the label for convenience, lest dwarves be “fleshy earthborn”, humans “midget Vrykul”, Nightelves “cool-toned mana-mutated trolls”, Highborne “warmer-toned mana-mutated trolls”, and Nightborne “both mana-mutated and mana-addicted trolls”. However, but it makes more sense to consider the Forsaken, like the Blood Elves, a faction, at least until such time as they have the generational (or equivalent) momentum to be very much distinct in culture, collective interests, and formative experiences from any other free undead.

  • Otherwise, if the Scarlet Crusade were to exclusively hold its own lands for a time instead of recruiting from elsewhere, even it would have to be considered a race, rather than a sect.

A free undead following under a new leader did not suddenly change their race any more than seceding from the Alliance or Horde would suddenly change one’s race. On the other hand, the Nightborne make more sense to consider separate (though, the Nightfallen are only ever considered a race when the term is used in synecdoche for the Nightborne); the changes did affect all three of those things, partly because new life could be born into that culture (whereas it cannot among anyone undead), making for a much clearer case for a distinct race.

1 Like
166

I’ll repeat what I said here.

Undeath is a general state of being with specific types (Vampyr, Ghouls, Zombies, Darkfallen, Death Knight, Forsaken, the list goes on) that can sometimes overlap in the case of Forsaken Death Knights. There is no “race of undead”, an undead’s race would be what they were in life (example – an undead Troll )These specific types all call themselves different things – such as in the case of the San’layn, who were a special type of Vampyr specifically raised by none other than Arthas himself.

San’layn are, as a type of undead, Darkfallen vampyr with additional powers granted to them by Arthas. They call themselves San’layn because that is their culture, a tarnished version of their living culture mixed in with the Scourge’s. They are a specific group of Darkfallen vampyr, an organization, what have you.

A race of Undead would be what they were in life; Undeath is a state of being with varied types of Undead (Forsaken, Death Knights, Liches, Banshees, Darkfallen, etc. ) There is no reason to suggest that ANY type of Undead is their own “race”. The race of say, Nazgrim would be an Orc. Thassarian a Human, Delaryn Night Elf, so on.

1 Like
167

Its like saying Kul-Tiran people and humans are different races. Kul-Tiran is just a race for gameplay but in reality its a different kingdom.

The Nightfallen is just a faction, the rebels of Suramar that was going against Elisande and trying to break their reliance on the Nightwell. They eventually do find a cure to the addiction otherwise roughly 50 days after being cut off from the Nightwell and they turn into a withered without intervention. A withered is still a Nightborne as well.

I also wouldnt put much stock into someone that said that Bolvar was still the LK. That was glossed over real quick when they said to “go check in game it says hes the LK” and when I went and looked it says “Highlord Bolvar Foredragon - Knights of the Ebon Blade”.

168

Interesting post and I completely understand the basis but I been pointing out from the start the concept that something can be both a Faction and a race it’s just very clear that certain individuals are incapable of grasping that simple concept and reasons why… However based on your post you should consider the following information carefully…
What is the actual in game reputation faction used for the Forsaken Undead and what banner do they use to signify it?
The answer is Undercity which is actually the Capital City of the Forsaken and is home to the following undead Forsaken, Darkfallen, Leper Gnome, Abomination, Banshee, Val’kyr, Wraith, Zombie, Ghoul, Skeleton, Plague Eruptor, and Mutated Abomination.
Note: the clear distinction of Forsaken and Darkfallen along with the various other undead variants which are each different enough from each other to constitute the basis of them being akin to races because they are vastly different from each other in more than just the way they look. If you are unable to associate the reasons why this enforces the concept of undead races then how do you define Elves in warcraft? Clearly they are all Elves but due to the differences in cultural, social, appearances, beliefs etc are the basis of each being considered a different race. The various undead of Undercity also differ socially, in appearance, beliefs and even a certain portion of culture as well which forms the same structure to identify each as a race

In addition to this in various Warcraft Novels that have been lore approved by Blizzard they specifically identified the concept of the Forsaken Race… They are they are specifically the undead humans of Undercity and the other undead of Undercity are reffered to as their own race such as Leper Gnome the books always use wording specifically like the leper gnomes of Undercity or the forsaken of Undercity they NEVER use the term Undead when discussing a specific type of undead within Underciry and the reason is obvious just like all elves are elves all undead are undead but each has a racial identifier that has been approved by Blizzard as part of their lore… This is a very important factor to understand… Blizzard themselves even in game dialogues don’t use Undead Humans when talking about those from Undercity they use forsaken of Undercity instead.

So this is where the actual Blizzard approved Lore does actually explicitly disambiguate each term for example they’ll use forsaken of Undercity using the small f when it’s the undead race vs the Forsaken of Undercity using the capital F when it’s the undead faction so they actually do in the lore distinguish between the two it’s just so subtle and too often overlooked that people miss it.

169

Clearly you also glossed over the fact that I unlike you actually have the ability to understand and even acknowledged my errors and gave you credit which you clearly choose to leave out which is a common trend for you. You time and again fail to accept or even acknowledge when you have been proven to be wrong instead you purposely ignore or skirt around never accepting the simple fact that you might actually be incorrect…
It seems to be your modus operandi as a means to inflate your own personal self importance and ego to make yourself feel better. However you always do this by using statements that you have specifically curated leaving out the critical information that changes the who aspect of the statement itself to something that is vastly different when you actually include the bits your explicitly chose to leave out all to inflate your own ego it seems

170

You ignored it completely.

171

Does wow really need more elf races anyway? So tired of everything being about elves.

Back to the subject though, red/green eyes for dk would be dope.

Y’know, like we’ve got in the splash art for blood and unholy when we change specs.

Blizz knows it’s amazing, clearly - and so do we.

3 Likes
172

Does wow really need more elf races anyway? So tired of everything being about elves.

True.

Back to the subject though, red/green eyes for dk would be dope.

Y’know, like we’ve got in the splash art for blood and unholy when we change specs.

Blizz knows it’s amazing, clearly - and so do we.

Facts, this would be pretty dope.

173

Unholy has blue eyes in the talent art, and the only way to show blood is “red” otherwise you cant distinguish it from any other DK.

174

Hey so, going past this 88 year argument about eye-color - I really think the idea to update the DK specific skins on original races is a great idea. Additionally they should really add them as an option for all the new races they added the to the rank of DK. Just saying, happy gaming!

6 Likes
175

Only here to say, give DK’s more eye colors nowz.

3 Likes
176

I’m really liking the runic tattoos, better undead / zombie skins, and eye colors suggestions

I realized also that DH’s took a lot of inspiration from the Dreadlords with their horns and their wings, but the Dreadlords & Sire Denathrius are from the Shadowlands. Also the undead San’Layn have horns and wings too.

Wouldn’t it be cool if DK’s also had more of that style? Or adding visible bones like a skeleton of Maldraxxus.

(Baseline underwater breathing as well pretty please, we are dead after all)

2 Likes
177

retconned junk. When DH’s were created Dreadlords were part of the Burning Legion and origins were from a planet where they were worshipping the void.

BQL had wings and the only one to my knowledge, but I havent seen a single one with horns.

178

Yes you’re right actually, she is the only one with wings now that I think about it. I was just wondering how to make DK stand out more as a Hero Class compared to the others. We have the least customizations compared to DHs and Evokers.

Technically it’s not a retcon though, because no one knew the Dreadlord backstory before they were found on that planet. Now we discovered that they’re basically spies and they joined the legion to divide and conquer right? There’s a Dreadlord with the priests and paladins too I think.

179

Night elves got some neat undead skins in Legion, but it was only applied to NPCs. We need more DK skins like this.

https://i.imgur.com/lN9kUwM.png
2 Likes
180

We did know their backstory. They just had to tie the Nathrezim to the Jailer in some way because they were tied to the Legion and the Lich King. So they were retconned. They retconned The Forge of Souls and a bunch of other stuff as well and in terms of story it was the worst ever written and many don’t even recognize it as canon.