It would be easier to discuss these things if you split to separate topics.
I don’t play super difficult content, mostly just M0s. I don’t do full fistweaving because I hate faeline stomp. The visual, the sound, the weaksauce damage and healing it does (same with chi burst and chi wave), the reset RNG, all of it. I do like to be in melee hitting things so I take some of the melee-oriented talents.
Soothing Mist feels fine. Unison is good value without even focusing on using Soothing Mist. Peaceful Mending helps get low health allies up quickly (or keep someone alive when they’re taking lots of damage).
I don’t take Jade Serpent Statue because button bloat / high maintenance, but I don’t like the idea of it following you around. Statues don’t move; make it a cooldown instead (and not require you to be channeling Soothing Mist). It could also cast Jade Wind instead.
I don’t like either of Yu’lon or Chi-Ji. I want them to do more by themselves. The Enveloping Breath synergy thing is wierd.
I use Upwelling; I don’t think it’s that bad. I imagine fistweavers avoid it because of anti-synergy with Ancient Teachings.
Zen Pulse could be more consistently useful although I don’t like the 3x heal in single target idea. Sometimes it’s OP, sometimes it’s useless. It should be one of those splits-among-enemies-hit type things with increased effectiveness per enemy hit. Roughly the same as currently at 5 targets, more effective in fewer targets, less effective in more targets. Personally I’d change it to be one of those “prevents the next X damage the target does” types of things, no damage or healing.
I haven’t seen Mist Step but it sounds unnecessary and too much mobility for PvP.
The cast time of Shielun’s feels bad and it’s weird that the clouds go to you instead of the people they’re healing. Lessons should just be deleted, the design is too addon-based.
With that logic there is also no key that a Prot Pally healer can’t complete. There is also about half the dungeons that could be done without a healer at all that could instead be run with tanky DPS like Locks/Rogues/DH.
As an example; healing a 12 RLP first boss might see healers doing 40-50k HPS because the group is sloppy. The shield doesn’t get burned through quickly, the adds melee some DPS as they’re being picked up by the tank, the tank is getting clapped permanently and everyone eats a tick or two they shouldn’t be from the Chillstorm.
There are some healers that can climb past that 12 key by healing 50-60k or 60-70k or even 70-80k HPS as they climb from ~12’s to ~18’s and then as they climb to the higher key levels the HPS required to heal that boss might actually drop back down to 50-60k HPS even in 20/21/22 Tyran keys because the fight is done cleanly and defensives are used well.
Some healers have the option to just heal through that progression. Fistweaver doesn’t. So while Fistweaver is perfectly viable in the cleanest groups, on the most lenient affix weeks with the most self sufficient groups possible; it certianly is playing a different game than the Caster MW build or Druids or Evokers or Hpals who can just brute force their way through many scenarios like that.
Also; there are some keys MW can’t complete. That doesn’t become an issue until 23+ keys though where the very best groups are working on timing all 25’s and maybe pushing 26’s; Fistweavers are currently stuck in mostly 23’s.
Some people find the fun in pushing keys not just the global to global gameplay of the spec they play.
I recommend you give the caster build a go instead of playing Fistweaver.
The caster build revolves around Yu’lon, Enveloping Mist and Tear of Morning and it shares the strengths of Evokers and Druids which is that it pumps throughput. It won’t do as much damage as a Fistweaver, thought it won’t be far off but it has the ability to push huge healing when necessary which Fistweaving doesn’t have.
I found its throughput to be so good that I could heal 20’s at 391. Now that I’m 410 they’re a breeze. Being able to push a button for 250k+ HPS makes a lot of healing checks quite easy.
I have one, and can definitively say that youre making some wild claims. the only mw doing 20s at 391 is getting a carry, paid or otherwise. Virtually all real heal checks have sustained groupwides or are trivialized by good dps. Lets see those 20+ HoV runs with a MW build.
I wouldnt mind seeing Avert Harm/Zen Med combo from MoP for Mistweaver. In the current state of healing, where it cant keep up with the FoTM Druid/Evoker Heal over times, it just doesnt feel like it use to.
Supply Monk with Utility like Shaman gets and watch it become one of the most viable.
AoE Tigers Lust strictly for Mistweaver.
Avert harm 2minute CD
Zen Med 2minute CD
Legacy of the White Tiger (5% stats) or Red Crane or Green Dragon. i dunno, just something to bring.
Lock the Zen Med and Avert Harm towards the bottom right of the tree on a path that would cost Fistweaving its own talents to obtain as to not just give Fistweavers another toy with no negatives. (Sacrafices must be made) but make that side of the tree super mistweaver friendly. Havnt done physical damage in 15seconds healing is increased by 15%, when you do, All damage done is reduced by 15%. Stuff like that
If you really want to bring people to mistweaver and monk you need two things. Buttons that feel good to press and improved visual. What sold me completely on ditching monk for envoker was using literally any of there kit but for one example. Dream breath its punchy, looks amazing, you feel good using it. Then comparing it to enveloping breath and yu’lons whisper, they are just okay I don’t get excited when they activate its all just very underwhelming.
Synergy is actually good with AT/Rising Mist. Means longer HoT uptime and more EF bolts means more RSK/RM heal procs, longer ren mist uptime also means more viv cleave healing. With our tier set giving a flat buff to EF I think even FW still take UpW.
I wish Yu’Lon was a full time gas blasting pet that followed us around. Unison and Jade serpent add the extra mist events to the statue, you pop either gift of the celestials or jade bond for the normal buffs. Maybe the pet has a cooldown on it’s bars to do some damage. They really need to drop the GCD on it and possibly even allow any spell to proc the breath, but with 10.0.7 bringing instant Env mist to TFtea it might be a bit better.
Not really. Don’t chase them. Just enjoy the fact that they exist for free after a huge cleave nuke heal. I didn’t even download a WA for them tbh. Big thing is using it at any stack before using revival. You dont need to take it though. I think there was another MW on here who just took the base Sheilun’s and opted out of the Lessons/Shorter mist time.
In Legion it was the artifact weapon is what drew mists in and then spread them out. So because they just re added the ability it is doing the same thing, sans the artifact ability. Im kinda glad the animation and it’s random mists came back. Makes me wonder though how many other animations from legion are possible to bring back. They NEED to bring back the giant Yu’Lon animation when we use Revival.
Cast time isnt much of an issue with 25% ish haste, and in raids where damage is scripted tbh. I do wish we could use it while moving or casting Soo Mist though.
Yeah…I wish we didnt need to mana tea too anymore either tbh. I mean it’s just macroed in with Yu’Lon for me at this point for 75% Env mist reduction ( since 10.0.5 ) every 1.5 mins with Gift of the Celestials, but still…it’s just another thing. Thematically I think it would be cool if we could give out mana teas/brew to our group similar to how warlocks give out healthstones, the item just works like a mini potion.
I think them allowing Worgen to be monk will bring a lot of people to the MW community…that is at least till the community turns them back away from the class. xD
Hopefully though some of the people will see how fun MW can be though. It’s really the most fun healer ;3
Id compare it more to Sheilun’s or like Vivify spam with proper EF/Ren mist set up tbh. I do agree env breath can feel meh though, esp in raids when other healers will top people off before it ticks fully.
Food buff is nice, especially for early gearing when you want to shift 2% ish of a stat ( C/H/V ) ( or 5% mastery ) around. Panda stun can also be useful in situations like HoV to interrupt things like Etch, or in SMBG, after mobs start a channelled cast ( if other options are on CD ).
I also rarely will roll off stuff randomly, especially while dragonriding when the action bar doesn’t change…so bouncy is just…helpful xD.
lmao my friend (who has no idea on anything monk) assumed the “difficulty” of brewmaster is due to them constantly rolling around and flying off of cliffs. I have roll’ed off many of cliffs and raid fight balconies
my monk is a kul tiran so i punch things awayyyYYyyy
It’s interesting how sites like https://mplus.subcreation.net/index.html rate MW at the bottom fairly consistently. This week they are currently listed in F tier by themselves (for the healer tier list). D tier in overall.
I’m not sure how they calculate it exactly (I think those ratings are purely based on completion data?), but there may simply be so few people playing the spec that they can’t get enough data to climb higher on the list. Like the few people succeeding with the spec can’t outweigh the data of the other people that aren’t doing well with it?
Also it’s interesting that if you actually expand the arrows you see even the F tier MW has completions up to 24 for the week (not sure how often it’s updated), so it doesn’t seem like it should even matter that much to the average person? Interestingly holy pallies and shaman actually currently have higher completions listed than Rdruid for the week (+26 atm while druid is +25), yet they are 2 tiers below them still on the tier list for the week (I guess the average completions are much lower?).
Subcreation has all sorts of problems, and is a clear motivator for terrible community perceptions.
Yep Top 100 for each region, so while you have more then 600 in the preservation and restoration samples; the mistweaver ranking is made using a grand total of 30 runs.
Perception? It literally shows an aggregate for the M+ data for the week. It shows the reality of which healing specs are timing which keys.
Most people on these forums having issues with MW are having issues with healing throughput and yet everything is telling them to play the build with notoriously low/random throughput because it does more damage. Is it really any wonder why MW is in F tier each week?
I’ve seen plenty of posts here of people who are struggling in 16-18 keys and end up rerolling because they find FW throughput too low or conditional which means those are the guys that don’t get into the 20+ range which is exactly why Subcreation shows MW being in F tier every single week.
Subcreation is nothing to take seriously. It means nothing in regards to tier lists. I see content creators constantly showing subcreation tier lists every week and it means NOTHING.
MW is not “F” tier. We are a solid “B” tier healer. Of course I want more buffs for us but it isn’t the end of the world. People in this game are too meta driven and worry about tier lists for no reason.
Just play whatever spec you enjoy. You can push to 21/22’s on any spec. At some point the meta will be a factor. If you really want to push the highest keys in the world maybe think about being FOTM player.
I’ve yet to see you even come close to my healing / dps numbers in any video. Granted you’re very careful to not show overall numbers. The meta build is there for a reason. Even if the caster build did do more healing it would NEVER be meta because the damage is too low.
They really need to drop the GCD on it and possibly even allow any spell to proc the breath, but with 10.0.7 bringing instant Env mist to TFtea it might be a bit better.
