DW is a mess
DW is a waste
DW is a big, fat, mistake
8 Likes
Yeah yeah yeah, we know you hate frost, its no surprise.
Better than FC + PoF + Deathâs Due? Doubtful.
Time to put a pause on the napkin math and lets wait to see some actual beta numbers. We get it, its worse, youâre always right. Now that weâve gotten past repeating the same thing every 4th post, lets be excited that 2H is even an option for now, they are actively playing with tuning to bring it in line with dw regardless if its better or not at the moment.
4 Likes
The developer notes " Developersâ notes: Our goal here is to bridge the gap of the proc discrepancy between DW and 2H, as well as giving 2-Handed Frost its own passive ability to make up the difference of not having two runeforge enchants." say all I need to know.
They clearly listened and know what the problems are. Given this last update, they are trying to fix it. It wont be fixed overnight, but they are making an honest effort. Those who support 2h Frost to be a real option again have already won. And Bliz did it in a way where it doesnt impact DW Frost. Everyone can be happy. 
At this point, If I was bliz, I would let this passive sink in for a bit and collect data from the community on how its working. There is no need for massive adjustments just yet.
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Maybe, but FC only adds a little to the other two strength abilities (if you time it with a proc), so it basically comes down to Fallen Crusader (+ a little bit) vs Razerice.
I think we would need numbers to find out. The next few days are going to be interesting =)
Its 15%, Pillar rank 2 is 20%, Deaths Due stacked is 15%⌠its not just a little bit.
His/her end goal is to argue his/her point no matter how wrong he/she is until the other person gives up or feels bad for him/her and stops responding.
I remember a post a month ago where he/she posted false information, then instead of admitting it was a mistake began to argue the very definition of being wrongâŚ
9 Likes
What in the above is directly from Fallen Crusader? 15% proc
When some chooses Razerice, they donât lose the ability to use PoF or Deathâs Due
What you should be looking at is how does Fallen Crusader impact Deathâs Due and Pillar of Frost.
15% of 20% is not a lot, nor is 15% of 15%. And that is if you hit the proc, if you donât, then you get nothing.
so, like i said:
1 Like
I heard a DK streamer say that fallen crusader is nerfed to 10% in PvP. That might tip the scale towards razorice or even stoneskin gargoyle for 2h PvP.
If it got nerfed down to 10% while Stoneskin still remained at 5% for all stats and armor, that would put Stoneskin on a pedestal.
This guy probly isnât even probably in the beta. Even going into the PTR and messing around you can see both weapons preform relatively close.
DW is doing about 7-8% more damage for me this is mainly because my DK has a BoS build and DW will scale better with mastery at this point. I will most likely run a haste =>crit > vers build in SL live with current setup and Iâm sure thatll narrow the gap.
Itâs very apparent 2H with murderous efficiency, IE and obliteration will have amazing pressure in PVP.
As it stands, it looks like DW, mastery BoS builds will still blow everything out of the water in SL though. If the raid encounters dont have great BoS uptime, maybe 2h has a shot.
We could also see further tuning now that the passive is out. Who knows
They said they didnât, so you are right.
Can I test out level 60 characters on the PTR? I think level 50 is missing some key abilities that make it even closer.
that is the dream!
2 Likes
It would appear that at least one witch is alive and strong!
I wish that stuff was added in the tooltip, so silly we have to go do a bunch of testing on a pvp dummy to find it out.
I think this was just mentioned on the beta forums, hopefully something will be done.
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There are PvP nerfs that date all the way back to legion that still affect the game today. Youâd need the FBI to get involved to uncover them all. Really messed up.
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Just as a question:
If FC/RI choice is one of the problems for 2H, wouldnt it be a simpler fix to take one of our dead (or fairly dead) talents and replace it with something that adds stacks of RI on hit?
Just throwing out random thoughts
2 Likes
That would also benefit DW though and I doubt we will see 2H only talents.
I am guessing they have settled on MotFW as the tuning knob to balance DW and 2H. So the KM proc chances and Obliterate damage bonus.
I wouldnât be surprised to see a 2H only rune though, if MotFW doesnât balance out the way they want it to.
I think this recent buff to 2H will likely be pretty close to DW, and better in certain situations.
But that is just a hunch! MotFW used to be a talent in the old talent trees we had, so who knows?
2h and DW also had separate attack power contributions added to almost every frost spell early in alpha. Thatâs another tuning knob.
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Yeah, and thinking about it more, it could lock up that talent row as a âmust haveâ if that were made. Good points