Content of equivalent difficulties get equal rewards instead of the current typical raider’s delusion of grandeur. If it was required to down every single bosses repeatedly to get fully mythic geared, their would be an argument but since you can gear almost 100% mythic from the first 3 or 4 bosses, getting mythic raid gear just isn’t that hard. Especially since you have tokens which can’t be used on Mythic+ or PvP mythic gear because they come in chests.
Like I said, the mythic+ lower threshold of just a +10 is too low. It needs to be raised, however this is stuck like this because they can only get 1 piece per week when a mythic team even with only clearing the first half can get 2-3 pieces because of trading and tokens that again cannot be used on chests.
PvP’s threshold is too high. 2400+ for 1 mythic piece a week is absurd. Anyone who can tell me 2400+ in PvP is easier or anywhere near than downing jadefire, grong, and/or champions of light is under the influence.
Why not make a compromise that’s probably worse for all. Devil mode intensifies
Do 3 keys to be eligible for a m+ weekly chest. Your weekly chest is based off your best 3 keys. So you’ll have to do +10 3x or so for a total score of 30, to get your mythic level piece reward. Failure to reach the required 3 dungeons of suitable level will result in a piece that only scales up to heroic level as base.
Sounds like the perfect way to increase time metrics / character for actiblizz! No reason for the m+ chest to be so easily obtainable in comparison to the pvp chest.
serious though, just make the mythic level piece require a +15, just like in legion
He didn’t say that all BiS comes from raids. He was pointing out the reality that not all ilvls are equivalent and simply stating that crushing M+ 10 keys week after week after week (@Allolria mythic level gear from M+ dungeons is already on a weekly lockout) isn’t an accurate reflection of the state of the person’s gear at the end of a season.
The fact that all of the people he and I were responding to are stuck at 416 ilvl, which is the minimum mythic ilvl, speaks to the difficulty of obtaining actual (or practical) mythic raiding gearing. None of them can start out this raid tier. They’re going to need to bang on dungeons for another month or two before they’ll even be able to considered for a raid spot and even then they’re likely to end up in their guild’s B team. I’d be surprised if they could (as in raid leaders letting them in, not whether their gear can qualify) PUG heroics if the raiding scene is anything like it was in Legion.
How do you figure that the difference between 414 and 416 is “literally nothing?” I already posted the math to demonstrate, factually, why your opinion is objectively incorrect.
Also, the fact that you think mythic dropping 415 at base means a 416 raider is “on par” while immediately following up with “receiving all 415 gear” as if that actually happens. M+ dungeon runners aren’t decked out in 415s. None of the people complaining about M+ gearing itemization have that gear. 415 doesn’t even drop from M+ except when it forges and that’s only one time per week.
I think the people who are reading this and applying logical thought to the issue can determine for themselves how likely it is to get a relevant piece of gear from such a system. Vendors give better gear, LMFAO.
The real problem here is that we have non-mythic raiders arguing on behalf of mythic raiders even though you aren’t really doing the content and don’t run into any of the issue you think you’re highlighting. There are no “mythic raiders” sitting in 416 ilvl gear at the end of the raid tier. Sorry guys, you simply got dragged through on a group’s farm day. If you bother to look at the gear these people complaining are wearing you can see the truth of the matter. Yes, that guy has two, count em, two pieces of dungeon forged gear. The highest dungeon forged gear he’s wearing is 410. His higher pieces came from a raid and they are terrible pieces regardless.
This is an argument born from low-skill players who don’t understand gearing and are trying to compare ilvl to ilvl in like comparisons but failing spectacularly.
Interestingly, I looked at your profile and you have only managed to obtain 407 ilvl throughout this entire season regardless of itemization being so broken and all this loot that is supposedly falling from the skies.
There are a number of ways you could increase your ilvl to 405 from 404, but the fact that it will take one piece of 420 gear to do it demonstrates exactly what I’m talking about–you have no idea how to compare specific ilvl to average ilvl.
While the difference between a 400 piece and a 405 piece can arguably be an insignificant difference, that’s completely different from concluding that 404 to 405 is an insignificant gear difference (it’s a significant gear difference–it requires a full 16 ilvl increase).
This is just not true in any reality. They’d be completely lost if they closed their eyes.
Now that the sillyness is passed lets continue.
I would like to see 5 ilvl below heroic for a weekly 10 done and have the normal 10 loot drop right at normal raiding gear. That way people who only do 10’s will still be below the heroic raider curve outside of warforge/titanforge.
This will continue the system they had in place but make the loot per key level more reasonable.
Same applies here as above.
15’s drop 15 ilvl below mythic raiders and the weekly chest will bring it up to 5 behind. However, I don’t believe the weekly chest should reward more loot based on completion time. It will just make pugging even more obnoxious than it already is.
This is probably the most acceptable solution to get butt hurt raiders to stop whining while reigning in our ilvl outside of titanforges. Can’t have the weekly chest over rewarding as raiders will see it as a requirement and whine more about being forced to +2/3 15’s.
I’d also be fine with a titanforge cap across all pieces of mythic+ gear to 5 below the max so mythic raiding will always be the highest ilvl rewards in the game.
I’d probably not accept any other solution that lowered gear any further and I’d imagine I would quit like others might over it.
The content might not be mythic raiding difficult, but lots of that difficulty is managing time and tons of people. Super high keys require an immense amount of skill to navigate and pull off correctly. The funny thing is though, that the majority of high key runners are already accomplished full clear mythic raiders having fun and hunting for better itemization. Or the rest that whine and complain about feeling forced to farm keys as if someone has a gun to their head.
When it comes to comparing the two, I know that mythic raiding is the hardest content, but while the mechanics are hard lots of the difficulty comes from getting the other 19 players to do everything right and that’s just so much room for error that amplifies the boss difficulty in a different way.
Mythic+ might not be the pinnacle of the hardest content, but it’s crazy hard once you start getting into higher keys and pushing yourself to keep doing better and keys on time.
One final thing I’d like to add in tuning mythic+.
I believe mythic+ dungeons should reward gold at the end to some extent. Not talking a lot of gold, but it should reward a couple hundred for timing a key along with loot. Now this will lead into the next part that is controversial.
I believe failed keys should reward zero loot and if you finish it the chest will have that 1 to 200 gold in it to eat some of the repair costs. Obviously completing a depleted key is still worth doing sometimes to get it to swap to another dungeon. But I believe we probably shouldn’t be rewarding failure as hard.
Now the very last controversial part.
I think the weekly chest should always be based on your highest timed key and not your highest completed.
This is all from someone who does nothing but mythic+ and I enjoy it immensely outside of that horrible affix coming soon. I feel like these changes would be reasonable and balance out the system without ruining it.
ok… hi… CE mythic main reporting in for my alt you just responded too.
please… tell me how i don’t know what i’m talking about…
getting to 414 by only doing m+ devalues getting to 416 doing mainly mythic raiding…
the difference between 2 ilvls… is negligable at best… because item levels take an average. so if you’re within a 2 ilvl average… your total stats are still only 2 ilvls apart… the difference in gear is marginal at best…
now if you were comparing a 414 to a 421… thats a bigger difference… but 2 ilvl average… .is not…
I’m confused as to what you think you’re demonstrating with your responses.
First of all, your M+ raider is stuck at 407 but has 416 from healing in raids. Your main is at 415 who, in your own words, got there via raiding. Looking at your gear, you only have one piece from M+. It’s a warforged piece from a +10 and it’s 410.
I’m not disputing whether you know what you’re talking about or not, but the things you’re posting in this thread don’t support the claim that M+ loot drops are overtuned.
The point you’re raising regarding 2 average ilvls apart simply demonstrates that you don’t understand the point or the math involved in comparing across gearing.
The issue isn’t whether someone with 414 gear compared to 416 gear has X amount of strength, for example. No, the issue is the amount of work it would take that person to obtain a 416 average item level and the game mechanics are such that it’s simply false to claim it’s as simple as running M+ for a few hours every day.
That’s a false claim. Everyone who understands gearing can logic how that would be false. And failing all that, all they have to do is look at your alt, your main, every other person in here complaining, and they’d see that none of you obtained mythic raiding ilvls from running M+.
In fact, you and he claiming that you are “mythic raiders” is head-scratching in the context of us being at the end of the raid tier and you having only just now reached the minimum level for participating.
For people getting lost in the weeds of this, the issue is this. Compare his raider’s profile. You’ll notice that he is at 415 ilvl. His lowest piece of gear is a 400. That means that in order for him to increase his ilvl he has to get a 420+ piece for that slot. Yes, it’s true that he can get 415s in two other 405 slots, and a variety of other permutations, but that’s exactly the point–it’s not accurate to lump all these gear ilvls into the same bucket because some pieces are more difficult to get than others and as the ilvl increases it becomes increasingly harder to obtain the gear necessary to move the needle.
That is, you can run M+ all day, every day and come out the other end at around 400ish. You won’t step out of M+ dungeon runs Mythic raid-ready. That’s the argument these guys keep trying to slide under the door. The reality is that once you hit 414 you’re going to be stuck there for a very long time if all you do is M+ runs. You may even be stuck there indefinitely. What is not going to happen, however, is you getting a 430 piece from a M+ (last season) because that wasn’t possible. Or a bunch of 425s from their M+ caches, which no one here has except for me and that’s literally the only time I’ve seen something proc that high in three years of M+.
Maybe the real “problem” is the few of you who can’t seem to understand the difference between 414 and 416 ilvl. You and he keep responding that it’s not that big of a deal yet I’ve shown the math, described the game mechanics, and have both of your armories as evidence that it really is difficult to obtain this really high ilvl you’re both worried about yet neither of you achieved (while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that it is a substantive difference).
These guys post so much misinformation it’s difficult to respond in a succinct post. Details important to understanding the issue are probably lost because of that. Here’s a quick and dirty way to see and feel what I’m explaining. Look at my character or your own character. Look at the lowest level piece. In my case, I have two of them (arm wraps and mage’s fuse at 400). The PvP azurite pieces are lowering my average to 410 equipped but my average ilvl is 415.
In order to increase my ilvl by one, increasing it from 410 to 411, I would have to replace either of those 400 pieces with a single 420+. A single 420 piece, although a 20 ilvl increase over the piece individually, will only increase my average ilvl (the one everyone sees and the one the game uses) to 411–a single ilvl increase. I need two 420 pieces (and they have to be for those two specific slots and they have to be useful) to increase my average ilvl to 412. The next highest pieces, my cloak, gloves, and rings at 410, need 425 drops to increase my ilvl by one.
How frequently have you seen 420+ pieces dropping?
These guys want you to believe that you can go through M+ and grind these 420+ pieces out when in fact you only get a drop that high each week and even then it’s extremely rare and exciting to get such a high drop from your weekly chest.
M+ was never good and people should be encouraged to raid more. Can barely find any fresh group finder raids on the Alliance side these days. There’s like one every 3 hours.
Most people can’t commit a huge chunk of their free time each week to raid progression. For me an hour or 2 of mythic+ is far more enjoyable than 4 mind numbing hours of scheduled raiding.
One forces you to play on someone else’s time and the other allows you to pick and choose what you do and how long you wish to do it.
remember ion was a hardcore raider hes one of those ppl we all hate in game and now he leads LOLOLOL wow has been declining ever since and now bleeding subs. not surprised he wants to please “his” butt buddies
Not just a “hardcore” raider, but the GM of Elitist Jerks who became the center of min/max theory-crafting and may have shifted the entire player base in that direction over time. If not his baby, the min-max design philosophy of current Blizzard devs (cf. D3, for example) is certainly something that he does or at least did identify with as a viable one.